Gods to Investigate [Running List]

[us4-he2-gal2]

Since this is the first running list added to this particular board, Ill start it off with a few bullet points to try and explain what the intended purpose is:

- Running lists as I see them, are like a page from someone's note book, or it is like sharing your notebook, a small part of it anyway. Running lists are composed of Mesopotamian objects that share some conceptual similarity, as perceived by the composer.
- The use of this type of post may not be immediately obvious, or may not come into focus for months. But if for example, at some point someone researching magic was to stumble on a running list lets say for "Mesopotamian Magical terms and words [Running list]"... Just one novel word on that list might suggest a new lead, and so demonstrate the use of these type of posts.
- Information here, and everywhere on this this particular area (Bibliographical Queries - Study topic Suggestions - Running lists) should be considered tentative. Consider them IDEA STARTERS, hence a person should peruse a running list with that in mind. Of course I would anticipate all posted lists will refer to academic sources for their material.
- The benefit to the reader of these posts is sporadic, but potentially very useful on that rare occasion. There is also a benefit to the poster of a list, because the "running" part means that anyone can reply with additional objects to add that they see as conceptually similar. Hence a running list is by nature not inclusive. Also the poster might benefit from a reader suggesting corrections or removal of an misplaced/misunderstood object. Its never a bad time to learn, even in a tentative, idea starting type environment.


Gods to Investigate:

This list is composed of gods Ive for one reason or another noted for detailed investigation at some point. The somewhat loose conceptual similarity here is 'obscure deities that may have something to say.'' There is no more criteria for their inclusion below beyond that:

Elder gods-

(example etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/etcsl.cgi?text=t.2.6.9.2)
Anšar [an-šar2]

(no example available)
Kišar [ki-šar2]

(example etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/etcsl.cgi?text=t.2.4.4.4#)
Uraš [(d)uraš] (In one tradition the Spouse of An, exact relation with Ki undetermined.)


(Enlil's Ancestors, example etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/etcsl.cgi?text=t.1.8.1.3)

Enki [den-ki] (Not to be confused with Enlil's brother)
Ninki [dnin-ki] (Not to be confused with Enlil's sister in law)
Enmul [(d)en-mul]
Ninmul [(d)nin-mul]
Endukuga [(d)en-du6-kug-ga]
Nindukuga [(d)nin-du6-kug-ga]
Enindašuruma [(d)en-inda-šurum!-ma]
Nindašuruma [(d)nin-/da\-šurum!-ma]
Enmu-utula [(d)en-mu-utu-la2]
En-me-šara [(d)en-me-/en\-šar2-ra] (In process)

Other gods of interest:

(example etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/etcsl.cgi?text=t.4.16.1)
Nisaba [(d)nisaba] (Ninlil/Sud's mother, not as obscure still very interesting)

(example etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/etcsl.cgi?text=t.2.6.9.2)
Haia [dha-ia3] (husband of Nisaba)

(example etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/etcsl.cgi?text=t.4.33.2)
Kusu [(d)ku3-su13] ("princess of the holy Abzu")

(example etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/etcsl.cgi?text=t.4.22.1)
Ninisina [(d)nin-isin2si-na] (Daughter of An and Uraš. Besides the obvious association with incantations in some of this deities own hymns, the goddess may be of interest to magic studies as Black&Green refer to this deity's identification with Gula, and Geller refers to Gula's relation to Ningirimma (Ningirim)

(example etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/etcsl.cgi?text=t.4.80.1)
Ningirim [dnin-girim3] (very relevant to pre-sargonic incantations)

(example etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/etcsl.cgi?text=t.1.8.1.3)
Sisig [/si-si\-[ig]] (In process)


Birth Goddesses:
etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/etcsl.cgi?text=t.1.1.2

Ninimma [(d)nin-imma3]
Šu-zi-ana [(d)šu-zi-an-na] (of particular interest to me)
Ninmada [(d)nin-ma-da]
Ninbarag [(d)nin-barag]
Ninmug [(d)nin-mug]
…… [(d)šar.šar.gaba]
Ninguna [(d)nin-gun3-na]




..Add what you will.

[madness]

For Haia, see Peeter Espak's Ancient Near Eastern Gods Enki and Ea, pp. 101-103. Haia may be a variant of the spelling of Ea.


I would like to see an investigation on the goddess:
Uttu [^dUttu]
See: etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/etcsl.cgi?text=t.1.1.1#
etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/etcsl.cgi?text=t.1.1.3#
etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/etcsl.cgi?text=t.5.3.2#

Here she is the goddess of weaving. She may also be a spider goddess. In a text that equates coloured wool with Uttu, Livingstone discusses in Mystical and Mythological Explanatory Works:

pp. 182-183
Here, coloured wool is equated with Uttu. In an explanatory work discussed in the previous chapter the grease on a flock of wool was said to be taboo to Enmešarra. In a work pertaining to the art of the seer the flock of wool is equated with Adad, and the grease on a flock of wool associated with Šamaš and Adad: it-qu ^dad[ad] mê^meš it-qí šip-ru ša ^dšamaš u ^dadad^! (BBR 24 rev.4), "Flock of wool: Adad. The grease on a flock of wool is something sent by Šamaš and Adad". It has been believed by some that Uttu is a spider, and if this is correct it would be an explanation for the equation: she herself is a spinner of yarn. The only evidence for identification of Uttu as a spider is derived from varients in a line from Šummu Ālu: lipit ^duttu (var. et-tu-tú) ina bītīšu išar (var. kajjān) (K 3769 and dupls. cited from CAD E 396b), "The work of Uttu (var. the spider) will prosper (var. be steady) in his house". The occurence of Uttu and "the spider" as variants has been taken to mean that Uttu is a spider; it could however merely derive from the near homophony of lipit ^duttu and lipit ettūtu. However, there is evidence in the myth of Enki and the World Order that Uttu is a weaver. Equation of Uttu with coloured wool is therefore based on a traditional association. One might compare a line in PBS 13 60, a list equating deities with objects: túg.babbar gada.babbar ^dnin.ME.TAG (PBS 13 60 7), "Bright cloth, bright linen: Nin.ME.TAG".

[cynsanity]

I have a translation of a hymn to Hajja, if anyone is interested.

[us4-he2-gal2]

Very interested! One pdf (Peter Espak) lead me to believe Hayya was the way Ea's name was pronounced in Ebla. So I'd be interested in seeing this tranaslation in whatever form you have ;]

[cynsanity]

K, going to type it down (with the transliteration) and will try my best to translate my German into English!

[madness]

Ninšubur [^dnin-šubur]

The faithful servant (šubur = "servant") of the gods, especially to Inanna in her descent.
etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/etcsl.cgi?text=t.1.4.1#
etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/etcsl.cgi?text=t.3.3.39#
etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/etcsl.cgi?text=t.4.25.1#
etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/etcsl.cgi?text=t.4.25.2#

Ninšubur is treated early in the An=Anum god list as the sukkal of An, and is equated in the list (and also in ETCSL 4.25.2) with ^dGA.GA (Kà.kà). Litke points out that "^dKà.kà here is probably to be identified with the sukallu of An.šár in Enûma-eliš III 2." Also equated with ^dPap.sukkal. There appears to be ambiguity as to whether this is a male or female deity.


Deities associated with Šamaš:
Aya [^da-a]
Gibil [^dgibil]
Nusku [^dnusku]

Marvin Powell discusses Aya in "Aia = Eos" in DUMU-E2-DUB-BA-A. Here she is represented as the goddess of dawn, and as the light of the sun.

The i.NAM.giš.hur.an.ki.a series associate Gibil and Nusku with Šamaš:

K 170 + Rm 520
r. 5. …] tab is two and 10 x 2 = 20. The comrades(tappû) of Šamaš(20) | 10 | Gibil Nusku

Gibil and Nusku share the number of 10. There is a play on the word tab (= "pair" and "associates").

[us4-he2-gal2]

Two exceedingly rare deities Im curious about, but have next to nothing on are:

1. Lisi [^dLi₈-si₄] . This goddess would appear to be a mother goddess, possibly the tutelary goddess of ancient Abu Salābīkh, who may have lost power and influence after the demise of that city. See 'Pre-Sargonic literary compositions' thread for some context.

2. Bahar-enunzaku [ ^dbáhar-é-nun-za-ku] * or [^dbáhar-un-za-ku] would seem to be an extremely rare deity, at least I have only seen him glimpsed in the Ur III incantations at Jena. He appears in [HS 2439] and [HS 1556] other texts Geller mentions the name appearing in are [VS 190] and [Ni 2177].
HS 1556 is quoted in the 'Ur III incantations' thread.

* Geller gives báhar-e-nun-za-ku in the glossary yet the translateration of Text.19 displays báhar- é-nun-za-ku

[amarsin]

I think it's actually li₉, not li₈; the first is the NE-sign, while the latter is the AB₂. The mother-goddess notion seems to be late one. In general, we don't know a whole lot about her. There is, I'm sure, an entry in RlA for her...

[madness]

Perhaps one thing to look into regarding the deity Haia.

In 'Nanše and the birds' the peacock is described:

The peacock spends the day keeping watch. The holy bird, the peacock, spends the day calling 'haya'. A bird red from cornelian, blue from lapis lazuli, white (?) from chalcedony (?), with all kinds of gold, and leather inlaid with gold -- may the coppersmith fashion the peacock for you thus.

The peacock here is ^dha-ia₃^mušen

[monkeyblood]

Who is Ningishzida's father?

Hi,I have a query.A friend of mine is writing an article and he's asked me to look at it.In his article he says Ninazu is Ningishzida's father.Now I have read that myself but then I've also read Enki is Ningishzida's father.I'm afraid I dont know which texts to look at to do the proper research and was wondering if anyone could help me out?
Thanks
Monkeyblood

[madness]

Dina Katz in The Image of the Netherworld in the Sumerian Sources makes it very clear that Ningišzida is the son of Ninazu and that his mother is Ningirida. Ninazu in turn is the son of Ereškigal.

The prayers on the ETCSL to Ningišzida should also clear things up.

etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/etcsl.cgi?text=t.4.19.1#
etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/etcsl.cgi?text=t.4.19.2#
etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/etcsl.cgi?text=t.4.19.3#
etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/etcsl.cgi?text=t.4.19.4#

Especially the first one:
"Beloved by his mother, he to whom Ningirida gave birth from her luxurious body"
"Praise be to Enki. Ninĝišzida, son of Ninazu! Praise be to Father Enki."

I have never heard of Ningišzida as the son of Enki. Where did you read this? Perhaps the final line of the above prayer lead to some confusion, where "Ninĝišzida, son of Ninazu!" is slotted between two praises to Enki. The prayer also states that he "grew up in the abzu" so Ningišzida is associated with Enki and the Abzu, but he is not his son.


[Unless you want to take chances and equate Enki with Ninazu? ^dnin-a-zu, his name would translate to something like "lord of the water of wisdom*," compare to abzu (zu.ab) "sea of wisdom." Also note that Dumuzi and Ningišzida come as a pair. I don't know enough about the nature of Ninazu to make this claim, though]

* Probably wrong. More correctly "lord knowing the waters" or "lord healer"

[monkeyblood]

Thanks,Madness,for replying so fully.I really appreciate it.It turns out my friend is correct in naming Ninazu as the father of Ningishzida and I had been led astray.
Zecharia Sitchin is the writer who claims Enki is the father of Ningishzida.
There are also some other prayers that are a little confusing.
Thanks again for your help

[us4-he2-gal2]

Monkeyblood:

If you'd like, you can review our thread on Ningishzidda, located here. Among other things this does include information on his relations within the pantheon and Ninazu. As a new member, I should invite you to email me [e-mail] for introductions and orientation.

Cheers.

[david]

I was wondering, is it possible to add Ereshkigal to the list, or does anyone know of where I can find more info on her?.

It's just I've looked, with my limited resources (being a student and lack of money), I haven't found much, and I'd really like to learn a lot more about her. There's loads of works on Inanna out there, but not much on Ereshkigal.

I'd appreciate any info you have that could help me.

Thanks for anything that you can share.

[madness]

I have never heard of Ningišzida as the son of Enki

Jacobsen discusses the dying god Damu in The Treasures of Darkness. This Damu is identified with Ningishzida .. and also Dumuzi apparently.

From the text dealing with the return of Damu, pp. 68-72, the deity is praised under the names of Ususu, Ningishzida, Ishtaran, and Igishuba. The text describes his mother and father:

The mother who bore him is a goddess, Urash (i.e., The tilth),
that lord is noble!
His father is the wild bull of Eridu (Enki),
that lord is noble!

[xuchilpaba]

What does 'damu' exactly mean? Maybe it could also be a title, which is what I'm speculating...

[sheshki]

in this post
enenuru.proboards52.com/index.cgi?board=netfun&action=display&thread=105&page=1#1016

i asked if someone know about d.im-mi.

i found the answer in Anne Rebekka Øiseths very interesting dissertation "With roots in the Abzu and crown in the
sky: Temple construction in between
myth and reality"



here is a quote:
sometimes followed in various texts by the line an-im-mi (anzu)-mušen, meaning “The bright
Thunderbird” (or bright Anzu-bird), and Andrew George has made an interesting suggestion
that the extended name of the temple (é-ninnu anzu-mušen-babbar) should read “The House
fifty (white Anzu-birds)

[ummia-inim-gina]

I'm curious about the Deity "Sataran". He was the patron god of Der and Marc van de Mieroop describes him as a "god of settling complaints" I'm curious as to what is meant by settling complaints. In all of the debate poems in the end it is alway enlil who is called upon to arbitrate disputes. If two people took their complaints about each other to an oracle to see who the gods favor, who would the oracle consult for divine guidance in arbitrating the dispute.

[ummia-inim-gina]

What do you think about the list of gods found at this site:

www.sarissa.org/sumer/sumer_g.php

If the informations here is unreliable could someone please recommend me another site that has a list of Sumerian gods paired with descriptions of their attributes and patron city-states. If such a site does not exist perhaps compiling such a list would be a good addition to enenuru.net ...

[amarsin]

Jun 29, 2008 21:06:06 GMT -5 ummia-inim-gina said:

What do you think about the list of gods found at this site:

www.sarissa.org/sumer/sumer_g.php

If the informations here is unreliable could someone please recommend me another site that has a list of Sumerian gods paired with descriptions of their attributes and patron city-states. If such a site does not exist perhaps compiling such a list would be a good addition to enenuru.net ...

some of it is good, some of it is more suspect, particularly the "also known as..." section. I'm also not so sure about the "symbol" section, though I'm not so well versed in Mesopotamian imagery.

[us4-he2-gal2]

I agree with Amarsin here.. Looking over this compilation of gods, it is fairly inclusive - however, it does not seem to be overly precise. For example..

-Just glancing through, I see the symbol for Enki is given as "Two serpents entwined on a staff" which seems incorrect to me (streams flowing from a vase would be more appropriate and the symbol given is better in the snake god context.)

- The symbol for Enlil is given as "seven small circles" which seems incorrect; this was however a later astrological device for paleides. In the 'Also known as'' for Enlil a Sumerian name "Illillos(S)" is suggested - this hardly seems to be a Sumerian name however. And the suggestions that Enlil is to be identified with the storm gods Adad and Ishkur are questionable despite what cognates he shares with these deities.

- Under the also known as for Ninhursag the writer has stated, apparently, that just about every female deity he has witnessed is in fact Ninhursag. While a number of them are elsewhere solidly associated with this goddess (Nintu, Ninmah, Aruru for example) there is no reason to state that Nammu, Bau or Gula etc. are also Ninhursag.


- The entry for Lamassu reads:

Lamassu(B,He)
[description:]A terrifying demon who preys on children and women.
[AKA] Labartu(As), Labasi, Lamme(S)



Its hard to tell where he is drawing this information from, most likely from very early Assyriological sources possibly before Campbell-thompson (1904). Lamassu is probably an early reading of what is now read as Lamashtu, as for the akas, yes Labartu is an aka for Lamashtu, but Labasi (probably an erronous reading of Labasu) is not the same: Labasu is a similiar demon mentioned alongside Lamashtu but not one and the same nevertheless. Furthermore, the Sumerian name at least in recent available sources gives the Sumerian for Lamashtu as DIM3.ME (as opposed to Lamme.)


This resouce though possibly helpful is also potentially misleading. I would stick to a copy of Black and Greens "Gods, demons and Symbols of Ancient Mesopotamia" if possible. Good question about the site though cheers.

[ummia-inim-gina]

I would like to know more about the deity Mamu. Mamu was associated with being the deity of dreams and visions and was also the child of Utu. In specific, does anyone know the gender of this deity, what city the cult was based out of, and up until what period was this deity worshiped?

[nocodeyv]

In regards to the goddess Uraš, I'd like to propose a personal theory. This is not supported by archaeology (to my knowledge, although I am still just beginning to approach the anthropological and archaeological study of Mesopotamia).

My theory, in a nutshell, is that Ki represents the Earth, while Uraš represents nature. For a common comparison, think of Ki as Gaia, and Uraš as Demeter.

I'll outline the process which I followed to arrive at this conclusion. Part of this stems from my understanding of religious ideas throughout various cultures, and part of it from some light research. If anyone can find fault or offer support for my theory, I would be very appreciative.

I first started studying Ki believing her to be the personification of both Earth and nature (as I hadn't yet heard of Uraš, being a more obscure goddess). My search lead me first to "The Dictionary of Mythology" by J.A. Coleman. Admittedly, this volume is not very reliable, as impressive of a tome as it may look. The entry on Ki in this volume is very short:

"Ki (Babylonian Antu) a Sumerian earth-goddess, daughter of Nammu, wife of An, mother of Enlil and Enki. Some say that she was the daughter of Anšar and Kišar, others that she was generated by Nammu. Originally An and Ki were joined together but Enlil separated them and mated with Ki to produce all living things on Earth. (see also Ninmah)"

While I now know that very little of this is accurate (Nammu was the mother, through parthenogenesis, of Enki; Enlil mated with Sud-Ninlil, not Ki; etc.), at the time it gave me reason to look further into the other names mentioned, specifically Antu and Ninmaḫ. Antu lead me to the Babylonian creation epic Enuma Eliš, which presented me with the idea that Antu was a syncretization of Ki and Uraš. At the time I had no idea who Uraš was, and didn't look into her any further. Instead, I turned to the other name given, one which was very mysterious to me: Ninmaḫ. A little study (and the ETCSL) revealed that Ninmaḫ is another name for Ninḫursag, one which is known mostly due to early fertility myths dealing with her and Enki in Dilmun.

Much of what I was reading described Ninḫursag as having absorbed the qualities of Ki. This I could accept quite readily, as this process happened all of the time in old religions, like the Egyptian goddess Hathor absorbing the cults of Bat, Sekhmet, and Qadeš. Ninḫursag though, was a goddess of mountains, unlike her counterpart Ninmaḫ, who was most assuredly a goddess of fertility and nature. This made me curious about whether or not the Sumerians had a separate goddess of nature or not. That line of thought lead me to Šakkan, and then further back to Ninsuna.

With Ninsuna I once more encountered the name Uraš. By this time I had found a different, better, encyclopedic source: "Encyclopedia of Gods" by Michael Jordan. Inside I looked up the entry for Ninsuna:

"Ninsun(a) - Lady Wild Cow - A cow-goddess. Mesopotamian (Sumerian, Akkadian, and Babylonian). Tutelary goddess of Gudea of Lagaš. Consort of the Sumerian hero-king Lugalbanda and also identified as the mother of the hero Gilgameš."

Wikipedia and some books by Samuel Noah Kramer fleshed out my understanding of Ninsuna, changing her from a simple tutelary goddess into a goddess of cows, herds, and nature. Out of curiosity I also looked to see if Jordan had recorded any information about Uraš, Ninsuna's mother. He had a, likewise, small entry:

"Uraš: cthonic earth-goddess. Mesopotamian (Sumerian). One of the named consorts of An and the mother of Nisaba, Ninisina, and Ninsuna."

While it may not seem like much, the simple mention of the word "cthonic" caught my curiosity. Cthonic, when applied to an earth-goddess, will often deal with the harvest and fertility cults, as opposed to just flowers and trees and herds. Also of interest were her other children. Ninisina, I learned, was also called Baba, Gula, and Ninkarrak, all of whom were the wife of Ninurta, a harvest god. Uraš, Ninisina, and Ninsuna were all connected to nature, fertility, and fecundity it seemed. It was at this point that I realized Uraš and Ki/Ninḫursag may not have been as close as I was lead to believe. A short flip away in Jordan's volume I came to the entry on Ki, which read:

"Ki - The Great One - Archetypal earth principle. Mesopotamian (Sumerian). According to some traditions Ki is the daughter of Anšar and Kišar and consort of An. As the cosmos came into being , An took the role of god of heaven and Ki became the personification of the earth and underworld. She is the mother of the god of air, Enlil, with whom she descended from the heavens. Some authorities argue that she was never regarded as a deity. There is no evidence of a cult and the name appears in a limited number of texts. The name Uraš may relate. (See also: Antu)"

The emphasis above is mine. At last the reality of things began to become clear to me. Ki was not a deity herself, but a personification of the Earth: rocks, mountains, sands, and other inanimate, non-living terrain. Uraš was the personification of nature: plants, vegetation, and living things. To my understanding, whenever An and Ki are mentioned it is cosmological, dictating how the Mesopotamian people believed the universe looked: Heaven (An), above Air (Enlil), covering Earth (Ki), surrounded by the Sea (Nammu), all atop the Netherworld (Kur). Yet, for animate life to flourish, it required not the Earth, but Nature, a completely separate deity, and that deity was Uraš.

This theory was further reinforced for me when I learned that Enlil's parentage is not, to my knowledge, ever expressly stated. The lines from "Gilgameš, Enkidu, and the Netherworld" where Enlil carries Ki away from An are most commonly given as "proof" of his parentage, but they do not, in fact, state that Enlil was the son of An. If that is the truth, and Enlil is not the son of An, then it would fit my hypothesis that Ki is neither Enlil's mother, nor a goddess in her own right.

I understand the above is just conjecture, and may be a little hard to follow (it is my first time trying to lay out the logic from A to B to C concerning the theory). If anyone has any details which they might add, whether to reinforce or point out obvious errors in my thought process, I welcome them. Otherwise, I hope this helps push some of the more learned members of these boards toward other, more archaeologically sound, theories concerning Uraš.


~ Noqo

[sheshki]

Here is the entry for KI from:

A Dictionary of Ancient Near Eastern Mythology
by Gwendolyn Leick,
first published 1991 by Routledge

Deities of Ancient Mesopotamia thread



Ki—Sumerian goddess
The name means ‘earth, land’. There is as yet no evidence that this was
a ‘real’ deity, who had a cult under this name. It may well be more of
a theological concept, a counterpart to An, as it only occurs in lists of
divine names in a cosmogonic context. As there were several different
traditions concerning the origin of the created world, Ki has different
connotations. It is impossible to decide at which point and where these
concepts changed. One tradition, preserved in an early version of the
list An=Anum (text TRS 10), states that the goddess Nammu was the
mother of Heaven and Earth (dama-ù.tu.an.ki), who in turn gave birth
to the first generation of gods, such as Enlil. A late survivor of the same
idea is contained in the Enuma eliš where the primeval pair Apsu and
Tiamat engendered Lahmu and Lahamu, who in turn produced Anšar
and Kišar. The later version of TRS 10 traces the genealogy of Enlil
back through fifteen male-female pairs, including the couple En.ki and
Nin.ki, to be interpreted in this context as Lord and Lady Earth. While
Enki is one of the great Sumerian gods, Nin.ki seems to be an artificially
constructed counterpart for the purpose of the list. The introduction to
Gilgameš, Enkidu and the Netherworld, states that ‘Enlil carried off the
earth’. Kramer (1976) concluded ‘that theologians unhappy with a female
deity as the ruler of so important a cosmic entity as earth, had taken her
power away from her and transferred it to a male deity’.
Kramer 1976, 14

[Salmu]

nocodeyv wrote

‘Much of what I was reading described Ninḫursag as having absorbed the qualities of Ki. This I could accept quite readily, as this process happened all of the time in old religions, like the Egyptian goddess Hathor absorbing the cults of Bat, Sekhmet, and Qadeš’

When one makes a statement like this it is recommended to back it up with a citation in case irritable cross disciplinary trolls have finally worked out how to navigate the new pro-board and remembered their password.

Me for example.

Polytheism is a tricky topic to sum up in a paragraph, because ‘absorbing’ or ‘appropriating’ another god’s aspects is highly dependant on social/tribal group (who), on time (when) and space (where).

Hathor may be argued to have coalesced with Bat in the early Dynastic (3rd mill.) to early pharaonic period in Egypt (in royal iconography btw), but Bat equally remained an independent god as well with her own temple and city, albeit a less senior one. She may have had more seniority in the Pre-dynastic due to her cult being associated with the social group who were gradually taking precedence politically. Her cult could be argued to have been assimilated with Hathor’s by the late 2nd millennium, assuming that these two names were not different aspects of the same goddess in the first place.

Similarly, Sekhmet could be considered a raging, aggressive aspect of Hathor, as both were protectresses of the sun god, but she also remained a powerful figure in her own right until the Roman period. In fact, both Sekhmet and Bast had enormous independent cults and worship in the 1st millennium. Her cult was centred at Memphis and she was the partner of the creator god Ptah and mother of Nefertum. The parallelism occurs when her triad is merged mythologically with the Heliopolitan and Theban pantheons.

Qudshu was not a native goddess. She was introduced to Egypt in the mid 2nd millennium from the Levant. There is still no consensus on which Levantine goddess this name refers to, as Qudshu is a title only extant from Egypt, ‘holy’. She could be conflated with Hathor as well in Egyptian state myth, because Hathor was a primary, ‘absolute top of the divine hierarchy’, goddess like Inanna, indivisibly associated with the myth of kingship, the afterlife and of creation that underpinned all Egyptian state cult and private belief. Qudshu’s cult was never independent, that is, she never had a temple precinct, rather it was, like many subsidiary deities, placed in the precincts of other senior state gods, usually in triad with the gods Min and Seth (Baal-Resheph).

A vertical process of belief ‘absorption’ is a modern 20th century convenience that scholars fell into in the past. But the nature of the divine in antiquity is more complicated than this and one cannot claim that the cult of Hathor absorbed the cults of these goddesses rather, there was an ebb and flow of values, because polytheism is organic and readily embraces a multitude of individuals and just as it easily conflates them. The same applies in Mesopotamia, or more so, because unlike Egypt, Mesopotamia also represents more diverse cultural groups. Therefore, I am sceptical about evidence for the vertical absorption of KI into Ninhursag, assuming KI was at any point an independent concrete deity with its own cult and not simply a mythological construct. The jury seems to be out on that issue.

Cheers S

Literature (it seemed like a good idea not to throw an extensive bib at the board because this is not an Egyptology forum)

Pinch G., 2002. Handbook of Egyptian Mythology .. it is available to download on the web

Cornelius, I., 2004. The Many Faces of the Goddess: The Iconography of the Syro-Palestinian Goddesses Anat, Astarte, Qedeshet and Asherah, c. 1500-1000 BCE.

[nocodeyv]

Aug 4, 2014 2:11:21 GMT -5 sheshki said:

Here is the entry for KI from:

A Dictionary of Ancient Near Eastern Mythology
by Gwendolyn Leick,
first published 1991 by Routledge

Deities of Ancient Mesopotamia thread



Ki—Sumerian goddess
The name means ‘earth, land’. There is as yet no evidence that this was
a ‘real’ deity, who had a cult under this name. It may well be more of
a theological concept, a counterpart to An, as it only occurs in lists of
divine names in a cosmogonic context. As there were several different
traditions concerning the origin of the created world, Ki has different
connotations. It is impossible to decide at which point and where these
concepts changed. One tradition, preserved in an early version of the
list An=Anum (text TRS 10), states that the goddess Nammu was the
mother of Heaven and Earth (dama-ù.tu.an.ki), who in turn gave birth
to the first generation of gods, such as Enlil. A late survivor of the same
idea is contained in the Enuma eliš where the primeval pair Apsu and
Tiamat engendered Lahmu and Lahamu, who in turn produced Anšar
and Kišar. The later version of TRS 10 traces the genealogy of Enlil
back through fifteen male-female pairs, including the couple En.ki and
Nin.ki, to be interpreted in this context as Lord and Lady Earth. While
Enki is one of the great Sumerian gods, Nin.ki seems to be an artificially
constructed counterpart for the purpose of the list. The introduction to
Gilgameš, Enkidu and the Netherworld, states that ‘Enlil carried off the
earth’. Kramer (1976) concluded ‘that theologians unhappy with a female
deity as the ruler of so important a cosmic entity as earth, had taken her
power away from her and transferred it to a male deity’.
Kramer 1976, 14

Thanks for quoting this, Sheshki, and for linking to the thread where more passages from the book can be found. I haven't read the volume before, and appreciate the reference you've provided. The entry here would seem to suggest that there is (or was) still a debate over whether or not Ki was a divine being, or just a representation of the non-living Earth, correct?

In my view, which is still subjective and open to others' input, Ki was not an independent being, but a representation of the Earth itself, lacking personality and soul. It was Ninḫursag and/or Uraš who embodied the living aspects of the Earth and Nature. I am, however, still learning about Mesopotamia, so perhaps you would know better if the Sumerians made a distinction between the inanimate Earth (sand, rocks, mountains, dirt) and the animate Earth/Nature (trees, flowers, vegetation, crops). Were they two distinct spheres, or a single domain?

I am also curious if these ancestral pairs, the lineage of Enlil mentioned in your excerpt above, have been explored more in-depth anywhere. I've always wanted to know where the Sumerians believed he came from, and was never quite content with the "Gilgameš, Enkidu, and the Netherworld" theory. Any information regarding them would be greatly appreciated, as this is the first I've seen mentioned of his parentage outside of Babylonian sources (like the Enuma Eliš).


~ Noqo

[nocodeyv]

Aug 6, 2014 6:48:17 GMT -5 Salmu said:

Woohoo, I got in!

nocodeyv wrote

‘Much of what I was reading described Ninḫursag as having absorbed the qualities of Ki. This I could accept quite readily, as this process happened all of the time in old religions, like the Egyptian goddess Hathor absorbing the cults of Bat, Sekhmet, and Qadeš’

When one makes a statement like this it is recommended to back it up with a citation in case irritable cross disciplinary trolls have finally worked out how to navigate the new pro-board and remembered their password.

Me for example.

Polytheism is a tricky topic to sum up in a paragraph, because ‘absorbing’ or ‘appropriating’ another god’s aspects is highly dependant on social/tribal group (who), on time (when) and space (where).

Hathor may be argued to have coalesced with Bat in the early Dynastic (3rd mill.) to early pharaonic period in Egypt (in royal iconography btw), but Bat equally remained an independent god as well with her own temple and city, albeit a less senior one. She may have had more seniority in the Pre-dynastic due to her cult being associated with the social group who were gradually taking precedence politically. Her cult could be argued to have been assimilated with Hathor’s by the late 2nd millennium, assuming that these two names were not different aspects of the same goddess in the first place.

Similarly, Sekhmet could be considered a raging, aggressive aspect of Hathor, as both were protectresses of the sun god, but she also remained a powerful figure in her own right until the Roman period. In fact, both Sekhmet and Bast had enormous independent cults and worship in the 1st millennium. Her cult was centred at Memphis and she was the partner of the creator god Ptah and mother of Nefertum. The parallelism occurs when her triad is merged mythologically with the Heliopolitan and Theban pantheons.

Qudshu was not a native goddess. She was introduced to Egypt in the mid 2nd millennium from the Levant. There is still no consensus on which Levantine goddess this name refers to, as Qudshu is a title only extant from Egypt, ‘holy’. She could be conflated with Hathor as well in Egyptian state myth, because Hathor was a primary, ‘absolute top of the divine hierarchy’, goddess like Inanna, indivisibly associated with the myth of kingship, the afterlife and of creation that underpinned all Egyptian state cult and private belief. Qudshu’s cult was never independent, that is, she never had a temple precinct, rather it was, like many subsidiary deities, placed in the precincts of other senior state gods, usually in triad with the gods Min and Seth (Baal-Resheph).

A vertical process of belief ‘absorption’ is a modern 20th century convenience that scholars fell into in the past. But the nature of the divine in antiquity is more complicated than this and one cannot claim that the cult of Hathor absorbed the cults of these goddesses rather, there was an ebb and flow of values, because polytheism is organic and readily embraces a multitude of individuals and just as it easily conflates them. The same applies in Mesopotamia, or more so, because unlike Egypt, Mesopotamia also represents more diverse cultural groups. Therefore, I am sceptical about evidence for the vertical absorption of KI into Ninhursag, assuming KI was at any point an independent concrete deity with its own cult and not simply a mythological construct. The jury seems to be out on that issue.

Cheers Andrea (nb: I need a new icon...)

Literature (it seemed like a good idea not to throw an extensive bib at the board because this is not an Egyptology forum)

Pinch G., 2002. Handbook of Egyptian Mythology .. it is available to download on the web

Cornelius, I., 2004. The Many Faces of the Goddess: The Iconography of the Syro-Palestinian Goddesses Anat, Astarte, Qedeshet and Asherah, c. 1500-1000 BCE.

I will have to be more careful how I talk about the overlap and mixing of deities from the ancient world in the future, sorry if my phrasing offended.

My understanding is not that Ki and Ninhursag were never distinct from one another, only that as time passed their qualities and functions (if Ki had any as such) were combined, that the diverse pantheon of hundreds (if not thousands) of local deities condensed, with similar figures merging into one another. This is, in my mind, most notable with the gods Ningirsu and Ninurta, whose commonalities make one nearly indistinguishable from the other, such that they both shared myths and mythological weapons. At the same time, the multitude of names for Ninḫursag—Aruru, Damgalnuna, Damkina, Mami, Ninmaḫ, Nintu—would suggest that several tutelary figures may have coalesced into her, feeding the current of what may have once been a lesser tutelary goddess as well.¹

None-the-less, I fully agree that each individual deity in Mesopotamia (or Egypt) did begin as its own divinity, many of them tutelary. I was only referring to the way that their functions and divine roles overlapped. The actual Ki and Ninhursag overlap which I alluded to was a theory I'd read about in "The Sumerians: Their History, Culture, and Character" by Samuel Noah Kramer, pg. 122:

"Fourth among the creating deities was the mother-goddess, Ninhursag, also known as Ninmah, "the exalted lady." In an earlier day this goddess was probably of even higher rank, and her name often preceded that of Enki when the four gods were listed together for one reason or another. Her name may originally have been Ki, "(mother) Earth," and she was probably taken to be the consort of An, "Heaven,"—An and Ki thus may have been conceived as the parents of all the gods."

This same theory is also mentioned on the Wiki entry:

"Some authorities question whether Ki was regarded as a deity since there is no evidence of a cult and the name appears only in a limited number of Sumerian creation texts. Samuel Noah Kramer identifies Ki with the Sumerian mother goddess Ninhursag and claims that they were originally the same figure."

I will admit that I may have been speaking too soon about Hathor. I am not as well versed in Egyptian mythology and religion, and most of my understanding of Hathor comes from her Wiki entry, George Hart's "A Dictionary of Egyptian Gods and Goddesses," and Ancient Egypt Online. That Bat, Qadesh, and Sekhmet were oroginally separate figures, and maintained some semblance of their identity, I don't disagree with, but I don't find it unreasonable to say that the Egyptian people equated each with Hathor in one aspect or another throughout Egypt's long history.

I am open to your interpretation though, and would like to hear what your take on Hathor is. Here's my email: [e-mail], if you're willing to write a more in-depth explanation of your view, I'd be happy to read it.


~ Noqo


^{1 - these names all come from the entry on Ninhursag in "Encyclopedia of Gods" by Michael Jordan, pg. 184. This same encyclopedia also presents the parallels between Ningirsu and Ninurta in myth and literature on their separate entries, pg. 184, 186 respectively.} 

[us4-he2-gal2]

Nocodeyv - Just so you know, I think you have done a fantastic job here. That is not yet meant to qualify the information, as I need to do a little reading and refresh myself on the finer points of Ki and Uraš before that. Also we have a member here who has done some work on Uraš and I was hoping he might drop by. But in terms of independent research, making the most of the material available to you, and maintaining a fair and progressive attitude, this is a great enenuru post. Will reply with more detail in the next week.

[enkur]

Nocodeyv,

I don't think "KI was not an independent being, but a representation of the Earth itself, lacking personality and soul", so I would like to turn your your attention to this Early Dynastic cosmological text:

Column i
1. [Let An-Heaven . . . ]
2. . . .
3. Let Ki-Earth come forth in (all) her lavishness(?)!
[or: Ki-Earth came forth in (all) her lavishness].
4. She was green (like) a garden, it was cool.
5. The holes in the ground were filled with water.

Column ii
1. An, the En, was standing (there) as a youthful man.
2. An-Heaven and Ki-Earth were "resounding" together.
3. At this time the Enki-and the Nunki-gods did not (yet) live,
4. Enlil did not (yet) live,
5. Ninlil did not (yet) live,

Column iii
1. "Today"( "last (year),"
2. "The remote (time)"( "last (year),"
3. The sunlight was not (yet) shining forth,
4. The moonlight was not (yet) coming forth.

Dear Enenurians, the text above (Mus #: AO 4153, P.Publication: NFT p. 180, CDLI: P315470) was quoted by Bill in the thread The Du-ku and Cosmology (B/W) but neither the link, nor the CDLI search work anymore. Does anybody know why?

[Salmu]

Nocodeyv,

I am not entirely clear where you got the impression that I was offended from my post. Because I was not. If anything I was attempting caustic humour.

I believed .. since the objective of this forum is ostensibly the exchange of dialogue and information (backed up with academic citations), I would contribute
 a very sparse overview of current thinking from Egyptology. Because I do know this topic and generalisations are always problematic.

None of what I contributed constitutes my views on the subject, as that would not be particularly professional of me, except the reference to KI...but call
that a vaguelly educated opinion, for as I understand it, there is a significant lack of material evidence for an argument on its concrete divine status.


Salmu