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Post by ummia-inim-gina on Dec 16, 2007 21:51:56 GMT -5
I have found contradicting information on what time of year was harvest time in Sumer.
In "Daily Life in Ancient Mesopotamia" by Karen Rhea Nemet-Nejat, it states that harvest started mid April except for barely and onions which come in May/June. However another source James W. Bell states "In Sumerian times, the year began after harvest time, in September/October. Later, Babylonians moved the start of the calendar year to spring."
So was harvest time April or September/October?
Also this leads me into a question about calenders. Amarsin already taught me that the city state of Umma would have switched to the Nippur calender after the end of the Ur III dynasty. Did the Nippur calender of the Isin period still start in September/October like a Sumerian calender or in spring like a Babylonian calender?
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Post by amarsin on Dec 17, 2007 11:04:34 GMT -5
I have found contradicting information on what time of year was harvest time in Sumer. In "Daily Life in Ancient Mesopotamia" by Karen Rhea Nemet-Nejat, it states that harvest started mid April except for barely and onions which come in May/June. However another source James W. Bell states "In Sumerian times, the year began after harvest time, in September/October. Later, Babylonians moved the start of the calendar year to spring." So was harvest time April or September/October? Also this leads me into a question about calenders. Amarsin already taught me that the city state of Umma would have switched to the Nippur calender after the end of the Ur III dynasty. Did the Nippur calender of the Isin period still start in September/October like a Sumerian calender or in spring like a Babylonian calender? Well, look: I don't know who James W. Bell is, but I assume you're talking about this site? If so, you should immediately be wary. Anyone who professes to know something about Mesopotamia, but who nevertheless calls it "Sumeria" and not just "Sumer" clearly isn't paying attention. The new year is March/April, and that is when barley is harvested. In April/May, you continue harvesting (including things like wheat). Irrigation is in January and February, and by early March, you're again looking at early harvest. As for the New Year, with only some minor exceptions, Mesopotamia saw the spring (March/April) as the time for that. In Sargonic Umma, it seems that the new year was held at the summer solstice, and in pre-OB Sippar, it seems to have been held, for a time, at the autumn equinox.
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Post by ummia-inim-gina on Dec 19, 2007 17:27:27 GMT -5
[/quote] Well, look: I don't know who James W. Bell is, but I assume you're talking about this site? If so, you should immediately be wary. Anyone who professes to know something about Mesopotamia, but who nevertheless calls it "Sumeria" and not just "Sumer" clearly isn't paying attention. [/quote] lol, I noticed that as well. It also made me cautious when I saw on his entries for each of the cities that he took the time to note if it talks about the city in the bible like that was his source for learning about Sumer. However his site does provide specific information on Mesopotamian waterways, like the Iturgal canal, that I can't find anywhere else on the Internet. No works cited as to where he gets this information though so it leaves me unknowing if any of it is true or not. Thanks as always amarsin.
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Post by amarsin on Dec 20, 2007 17:37:38 GMT -5
Well, there's all sorts of debate about Mesopotamian hydrology. I could try to find something up-to-date, or even look to scan electronically some recent attempts by people to should the hydrology around Umma, since that's what you're interested in.
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Post by ummia-inim-gina on Dec 20, 2007 22:38:28 GMT -5
That would be awsome, I'd really like to see that.
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Post by saharda on Apr 9, 2008 15:23:11 GMT -5
Just a little note on the Nippurian Calendar. Months began on the new moon and occasional intercalating months were needed. In early times these extra months weren't regularized. This means that the beginnings of months could drift by almost an entire month before correction.
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Post by ummia-inim-gina on Sept 29, 2008 12:25:24 GMT -5
Just for a quick reference for myself here is the Nippur Calendar discussed above (note I have come across two slightly different versions, especially when it comes to the third month, I'm not sure which is appropriate for me yet.)
1 Bara za Nar - bara-zag-gar 2 Ezem Gusisu - ezem-gu-si-su 3 Sig Ga - sig-u-sub-ba-ga-gar 4 Su-numun - su-numun 5 Ne Izi Gar - ne-IZI-gar 6 Kin Inanna - kin-inanna 7 Duku - du -ku 8 Apin Du-a - apin-du-a 9 Gan Gan-e - gan-gan-e/gan-gan-mu-e 10 Ab-ba-e - ku-su > ab-e 11 Ud Duru - ud-duru 12 Se Kin Ku - se-kin-ku 13. diri-se-kin-ku
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Post by us4-he2-gal2 on Sept 29, 2008 19:53:24 GMT -5
Hey Ummia: That is definetly the Nippurian calander, which is a Mesopotamian calander that stayed quite consistent over the centuries. I have M. Cohen "Cultic Calendars of the Ancient Near East" book which I have relied on for years on this topic. On the Sisig thread, we delt with some of Cohen's comments on the ne.IZI.gar month, whih were very interesting for sure. Sisig Thread See post 1. This same question is somewhat refined at the Revised Sisig thread (bottom of post one) We can get you more details any of these months though, which ones are you interested in
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Post by ummia-inim-gina on Sept 30, 2008 12:05:12 GMT -5
Yes, I found those threads as well as the discussion on the "month of ghosts" thread very interesting/helpful. I'm hoping to include at least one description of a holiday somewhere in my story but haven't focused on that yet. What do you think of the description of the calendar found at "Temple of Sumer"? That is mainly what I'm going off for the time being. Right now I'm just looking into confirming that these are the names of the months that would be used in Umma during "the year Abi-sare smote the armies of Isin with weapons". While use of the nippur calendar is very consistent, there does seem to be some variation on the names of certain months. On the two calendars I posted above most of the differences in names are only small. However some of them, like the third month (Sig Ga or sig-u-sub-ba-ga-gar), the difference is rather large. I'm hoping not to screw up which name was used in the particular place/period.
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Post by us4-he2-gal2 on Sept 30, 2008 16:52:58 GMT -5
Ummia:
As far as what I think of the information at templeofSumer.com, I produced that information a few years ago for the web-builder and so it comes from Cohen's book as well. However, with respect to the web-builder who is a member here, it has been reformated and additions made for the pagan community which may not be advantageous for your purposes.
Cohen does produce a early calendar from Umma with many interesting descrptions and explanations - I should scan this and send it too you I think, theres alot to choose from and of course a list of month names ;]
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Post by ummia-inim-gina on Oct 1, 2008 15:09:00 GMT -5
While the indigenous Umma calendar has gone obsolete by the time of the story I'm currently working on, I would love to see that material. As I mentioned in a PM to you I'm going to be writing more stories that take place in Umma after this one and I'm trying to gather information from earlier periods ahead of time, as each story I want to move back about a hundred years from the last. I'm thinking the next one I write I want to take place during the reign of Ibbi-Suen. As Amar-sin taught me long ago in the introduction thread after the Ur III period everyone adopted the Nippur calendar. While there is abundance of calendrical information for the Ur III period available to me online I can't find much for the Isin/Larsa period. This leaves me asking two questions: Which of the two versions of the Nippur calendar I posted (if either) did they use for month names? When exactly did Umma adopt the Nippur calendar (during the reign of Ishbi-erra perhaps?) For the Ur III period I found a very useful tool for keeping track of how the month names changed, especially in Umma: cdli.ucla.edu/tools/ur3months/umma_ss3_to_is8.html As seen here, the seventh month name changed from "UR" to "ezem-{d}szul-gi " on the the year of the reign of Shulgi. Also the tenth month name changed briefly during the seventh year of Amar-sin from "min-esz3 " to "ezem-{d}amar-{d}suen" until the second year of the reign of Shu-Suen when it changed back to "min-esz3 ". So at the end of the reign of Ibbi-Suen the calendar used at Umma looked like this: sze-sag/sag11-ku5 sig4-{gisz}i3-szub-ba-gar sze-kar-ra-gal2-la nesag2 RI/dal szu-numun min-esz3 e2-iti-6 {d}li9-si4 ezem-{d}szul-gi pa4-u2-e {d}dumu-zi diri (13th month)
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Post by us4-he2-gal2 on Oct 9, 2008 16:55:50 GMT -5
Ummia: First to confirm that yes, the Nippur Calendar was after the Ur III period used as a standard throughout the south as Amarsin has discussed - M. Cohen states as much in his book and on pg. 225 speculatues that this was "perhaps an innovation of the first monarch of the Isin dynasty, Ishbi-Erra (2017-1985 B.C)." Isin was very close to Nippur and Ishbi-Erra may have recognized the unifying power of Nippur, its rites and it ancient calendar (which had remained fairly consistent since Early Dynastic times.) Cohen does give an explanation of some small differences in the months names between what is called the Southern Mesopotamian Sumerian Calendar (that is the Standard Calender that Ishbi-Erra adapted from Nippur and spread through the south) and the Ur III Nippur Calender itself..)The Standard is what we believe would be in use in post Ur III Umma.) The small differences Cohen explains are: - The complete abandonment of the Ur III Nippur orthography of itisig 4gišu 5-šub-ba-gar (and variants) in favor or a shortened itisig4-a. - The introduction of the orthography itiudra (=ZIZ.A.AN) for itiúd-duru 5 (= itiZIZ.A); and - The orthography itigu 4-si-sá, which indicates a lack of understanding of the original Nippur name. Cohen gives 7 or 8 additional variants month name spellings that apply to certain cities - lik Sippar had a specific way of spelling this or that month on the Standard calender. Since none of these varients apply specifically to Umma I don't mention them here. So from this we can assume Umma adopted the Standard calender of Ishbi-Erra, and that it was identical with that or Ur III Nippur with the exception of the 3 variants Cohen gives above. To be as accurate as possible I will list the Nippurian months below from Cohen - and edit in the changes he mentioned from Original to South Mesopotamian Standard. (These I Have highlighted) Note: - In its entire history from Early Dynastic times, only one month name was completely changed: In the reign of Amar-sin, month 10 changed from itikù-su 2 to itiab-è. - The earliest document listing all 12 Nippurian months in order is from the Ur III period - see CDLI link here Ur III Nippurian Months (Alterations made for Standard calender Highlighted) 1. bára-zag-gar 2. ezem-gu4-si-sù ----- [itigu4-si-sá] 3. sig4-gišu5-šub-ba-gá-gar ---- [itisig4-a] 4. šu-numun 5. ne-IZI-gar 6. kin-dInanna 7. du6-kù 8. gišapin-du8-a 9. gan-gan-è [or] gan-gan-mu-è 10. ab-è 11. úd-duru5 ----- [itiudra [/i]] 12. še-kin-ku 513. diri-še-kin-ku 5 [intercalary month] [/center] The Umma Calander/ Before adopting the standard calendar after Ishbi-Erra, Umma had a complex and interesting calendar and corresponding festivals of its own which text sources are particular strong for in the Sargonic period - the evidence is thus very early! Cohen goes over these months and festivals in detail in his work and I have made this chapter of the book available at the following enenuru.net link for any interested. Cheers.
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Post by ummia-inim-gina on Oct 10, 2008 20:52:20 GMT -5
Thanks as always Ushegal
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Post by sheshki on Dec 30, 2008 13:00:27 GMT -5
here is a qutoe from Zinda Magazin about the assyrian calendar. Thanks to lara for sending me the link. ------------------------------------------ The Assyrian Calendar The Assyrian Calendar begins with the first recorded year of the "beginning of civilization" (shooraya d'mdeetanayoota) as seen through the eyes of the ancient Bet-Nahranaye (Mesopotamians). These ancient inhabitants of Assyria, Babylon, and Sumer believed that civilization was a "gift from the gods" and it was marked from the time "kingship was lowered from heaven." The earliest sign of municipal administration (kingship in pre-historic sense) appears during the Halaf Period in Mesopotamia (over 7000 years ago). The most notable characteristics of this period are the "sitting goddess figurines" indicating a goddess-worshipping culture and the distinctive colored potteries with geometric designs pointing to the existence of a high-culture civilization in Mesopotamia. The Sumerian term akiti meant "building life on earth" symbolizing the handing of life from gods to man. The Babylonians adopted this term and called their New Year festival Akitu (modern-day Kha b'Neesan). According to the latest archeological findings in Anatolia, the transformation of localized settlements to the first cities took place between 4300 to 3450 B.C.. Religion was the main focus of socialization during this period and each city possessed a religious complex (i.e. ziggurats). Each city was administered by a "local king" or lugal. Archeologists refer to this period as the Early to Middle Uruk Periods. In the 1950's Assyrians believed that based on the research findings of their contemporary archaeologists the first construction of the city of Ashur's temple during the Uruk Period took place around 4750 B.C. This date was then recorded as the beginning of "civilization" in Mesopotamia. In fact, the impetus behind this decision was the publication of a series of articles in the Assyrian magazine Gilgamesh, edited by the famous poet-brothers, Addi and Jean Alkhas, and the late Nimrod Simono. It is possible that the exact date of the beginning of civilization in Mesopotamia may vary as more accurate research reveals the existence of a more ancient and "civilized" culture in Bet-Nahrain. This fascinating topic remains as enigmatic as the exact date of the birth of Jesus Christ whose year of birth has been the fulcrum of historicity for the past two thousand years. Incidentally, the Jewish Calendar has very questionable origins also. It begins with the year 3760 B.C. (as opposed to Assyrian 4750 B.C.). Indeed the year 3760 B.C. coincides with the time "kingship was lowered to mankind" in the city of Kish, southern Bet-Nahrain. Until the Vatican can provide solid proof that Jesus of Nazareth was born precisely 2006 years ago on December 25 and the Israeli Knesset can furnish evidence of the Jewish Heritage in the year 3760 B.C., Zinda Magazine will continue to post the year 4750 B.C. as the beginning of "civilization" in Mesopotamia and the birth of the "Assyrian Conscience" in Assyria.
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Post by us4-he2-gal2 on Jan 1, 2009 12:43:15 GMT -5
Frank:
Thanks for sharing - you have indeed found an interesting link here worth looking over. Well, Zinda magazine I have heard of in the past I can't recall where.. but looking at the website here I believe it is a magazine in support of the Modern day Assyrians who are struggling to preserve their identity and what their cultural legacy which they believes themselves to have, in some complicated manner, inherited from the ancient Assyrians themselves. I'm fairly certain they are all some blend of Islam anyway but nonetheless..0_0 The article concerning akitu we are considering above is not written but one of these persons however, as is indicated, it was submited by one Lishtar, who is the layman enthusiast behind gatewaystobabylon.com . She is someone who in the past opened up Mesopotamian scholarship to many interested readers on the internet and she was a very impressive reader and commentator, though also she was given to mixing some personnal religious convictions and non-academic points into her presentations to include blurring her academic materials with her own fictions. Gatewaystobabylon has been inactive for years.
On looking over what she says about akitu and the Assyrian calendar above, I am confused in some places - for example she says:
"The Assyrian Calendar begins with the first recorded year of the "beginning of civilization" (shooraya d'mdeetanayoota)"
I am not sure what "shooraya d'mdeetanayoota" is supposed to be, but am convinced this is not a Mesopotamian term. I would almost guess it to be an Indian term perhaps - the same with " Bet-Nahranaye" - I would almost guess that, but on googling this term I see these are Syrian words which the 'modern day Assyrians' use to describe their claimed heritage.
It is evident that Lishtar is attempting to sketch for us, the readers, what the *modern day Assyrians* view the beginnings of Mesopotamian civilization to be, when she says "Some In the 1950's Assyrians believed that based on the research findings of their contemporary archaeologists" - here her reference to "the Assyrians" is not to ancient Assyrians, or to Assyriologists, but to so called modern day Assyrians. It would seem that modern day Assyrians aren't dedicated so much to Assyriological finding as to emphasizing the primacy of the early Semitic people above all else - and so we can't take what they say to help our academic interests, but at the same time their idea's themselves are of interest and should be examined somewhere in detail I think.
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adante
dubĝal (scribes assistent)
Posts: 41
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Post by adante on Jan 12, 2009 13:02:09 GMT -5
Not sure where I should put this question, so please move if its in the wrong place.
I live in Australia, basically seasons are reversed. Spring begins in September for me. I was wanting more information on the calender, so I can adjust dates to suit where I live. For instance, the new year celebration in spring, would that have been around the time of the spring equinox? Any information on this I'd be really grateful for, thanks.
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