Sumerian Verbs

[ninurta2008]

Basically, I've really be making an aim for learning to read sumerian, but haven't found enough on sumerian verbs. I'm trying to figure out how sumerian verbs work, how they're conjugated, and all that good stuff.

So far, I've found this:
www-etcsl.orient.ox.ac.uk/edition2/language.php#verbs

www.sumerian.org
Their lexicon has some stuff

I also found:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumerian_language#Verbal_morphology
en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Sumerian

I'm not so certain if the information in those two is good, as wikipedia and wikibooks are notorious for not being good sources of information. But I'd like to know if there are any other good places with information on sumerian verbs.

I also went to a UCLA site for it, but I gotta find the URL. Its a site with alot of lists, texts, etc... Its a wonderful site, but I haven't found a description of verbs the last time I went. Just some introductions on Elamite and Sumerian.

[enkur]

Ninurta,

I've already passed this course. It's almost desperating to occupy with Sumerian, if one is not an ANE student. Sigh. I've accepted my destiny of not being such a student, and enjoy even the slightest insight I get in this matter. Why not invoke the goddess Nisaba to guide you? I'm serious about it.

[ninurta2008]

The last time I prayed, it was to Inanna to make certain parts of my life better. Then I started to question my beliefs, and everything went south. Now, I'm an atheist, I don't think it'd be right to start believing again just to learn sumerian, its a bit selfish haha.

[adapa]

It is difficult to study Sumerian without being affected in one way or another by the Sumerian gods. The power of the gods is still so great that they can reach out through time to those who attract their attention, who utter their sacred language and understand it in their minds.

I haven't yet found a decent discussion of the verb on the internet. When I first learned Sumerian there were no grammars, it was all oral tradition, a secret tradition available only to those who were initiated into Near Eastern programs at the few universities who offered it. But in the 80's a few grammars were published, the one you should try to track down at a library is Marie Thomsen, The Sumerian Language. We jumped on that book as soon as it came out and I found it to be a straight forward discussion of the language with lots of examples. Unfortunately it's out of print and the used copies around are amazingly expensive.

[enkur]

Hmm I'm neither a believer, nor an atheist, and that's why I don't fit neither the neo-pagan circles, nor the scholar ones. Both find my thoughts strange, or immature in the best case. I'm a selfish sorcerer who is not ashamed of being such as I am. The numinous exists anyway - outside of me, and within me, an ineffable mystery beyond belief and reason, beyond religion and science. Exploring the human emotionality I've gone very deep. The language of the DNA being mythic, it's the Sumerian mythos which mostly resonates with my nature. Seems that not everybody could enjoy the privilege to know Sumerian, but one may contact the numinous within without knowing Sumerian provided one is on a personal quest...Otherwise it's Ereshkigal who is the most reliable goddess to me.

[ninurta2008]

I've borrowed the book "Sumerian Lexicon" by John Alan Halloran, it arrived earlier than expected. I'm hoping it will help me, searching its entirety and taking notes, better pay off. LOL, I'm paying the shipping to the library to return it to the Brooklyn Library. My work wouldn't do it if I didn't work there.

Apr 4, 2011 14:03:15 GMT -5 Naomi said:

So maybe Inanna's answer to your prayer was to make you question your beliefs and inspire you to atheism?

Why would she do that?

"I slept with Faith, and found a corpse in my arms on awaking; I drank and danced all night with Doubt, and found her a virgin in the morning."

- Aleister Crowley

Somehow, I'm not quite getting the idea Crowley is trying to convey, I'm not the greatest with metaphor. The first part, "I slept with faith, and found a corpse in my arms on awaking;" seems to be, I enjoyed faith until I found it to not be something real?

[enkur]

Faith is frigid and reason (doubt) is sterile without inspiration, but please don't ask me what is inspiration - it's either there, or isn't there Ninurta, I feel you understand much more than you allow yourself

[ninurta2008]

Apr 5, 2011 10:22:55 GMT -5 enkur said:

Faith is frigid and reason (doubt) is sterile without inspiration, but please don't ask me what is inspiration - it's either there, or isn't there Ninurta, I feel you understand much more than you allow yourself

I don't see how inspiration needs faith, but I do know what it is. Faith, as in belief without evidence, seems to me to lack inspiration, and work counter to it. A lack of faith doesn't mean a lack of inspiration. We knew things could fly, the airplanes were inspired by them, and we then flew.

[enkur]

Of course, inspiration needs no faith but both faith and reason need inspiration lest they are just what Crowley said about them. On the other hand, the inspiration could be invoked or evoked via ritual. One doesn't need to invest too much faith in the ritual except that "by doing certain things certain results will follow" to quote Crowley again. Following your example, in order to construct an airplane, one needs to inspire oneself by observing naturally flying things. The art of arrangement of the inspiring objects and uniting them by a single idea is in fact the ritual itself.

[ninurta2008]

I see. So basically, you study myth and observe ritual basically for inspiration for something, to do something, or am I getting you right?

[enkur]

Yes, it could be said so. However, sometimes the inspiration could be emotionally overwhelming, and that's why in the ancient texts we often read epithets like "awe-inspiring", or "terror-inspiring" as regards the deities.

[ninurta2008]

Pantheist? Theist? Panentheist? Agnostic? Atheist? Polytheist? How'd you describe your views towards the "divine"/"revered"?

[enkur]

A sorcerer

[ninurta2008]

Apr 5, 2011 18:39:50 GMT -5 enkur said:

A sorcerer

I meant, do you hold any views towards the divine?

[enkur]

The sorcerers hold themselves divine
The sorcerer is one who should be human but isn't.
The sorcerer is one who should be mad but isn't.
The sorcerer is one who should be dead but isn't.
One is a sorcerer not by one's own choice - it's both blessing and curse.
Life is divine - it's a miracle even on an atheist view.
The divine is when human is not - that's why human should humble before life.
Human is a means of life not vice versa.
Understandable, or overstandable?

[adapa]

Interesting discussion here. I've been many different types of "ists" in my life, monotheist, atheist, polytheist, pantheist, animist, omnitheist, and gods know what else. I'm not necessarily any of those now, I just pluck bits and pieces from each to create my own universe depending on what mental state I happen to be in at the moment.
Anyway, to get back to "Sumerian Verbs" just for a minute. I've been doing some looking after reading this thread and stumbled upon a book called Introduction to Sumerian Grammar, by Daniel Foxvog, dated 2010. I don't think I ever met Foxvog, but he was a student of Wolfgang Heimpel (that's a very good thing!) and he taught Sumerian at Berkeley for years. I've glanced through it and it looks very good. It does, however, look like very difficult reading. Sumerologists love grammatical techno-babble and this book is full of it. But he does provide lots of examples, which is very useful. You can view the book here: home.comcast.net/~foxvog/Grammar.pdf. If you want to download it just right click on the link and select "save link as."

[enkur]

Adapa,

I've already got that book as well as other ones on the matter but I doubt if I will have time to learn Sumerian despite of my eccentric affinity to the Sumerian culture. I could be a sorcerer outside of the Sumerian context as well as of any other context, yet it's my emotional predilection to express myself within the concept I've got nowadays from that ancient culture and I'm open to learn and I'm grateful to the slightest insight I get along my study.


Magically each of us being an unique configuration of MEs, each ME urges one to its corresponding "ism" in the mundane world, so it's naturally one to become some "ist", or many different "ists" during one's life time. The sorcerers are predisposed to embrace many and often contradictory "isms" while grow spiritually, which often make them seem freak persons in the mundane world

However, the sorcerer has no time to fully indulge in neither of these "isms", because s/he knows hir time is short on this world, and each mundane "ism" is a dead end to its original ME, so it's the integration of one's MEs while still alive which constitutes the sorcerer's quest. All one's MEs return to Abzu when one is stripped down to the bone before Ereshkigal, and it depends on one's ghost integrity if one will bear Her gaze.

[ninurta2008]

Apr 6, 2011 8:40:02 GMT -5 enkur said:

The sorcerers hold themselves divine
The sorcerer is one who should be human but isn't.
The sorcerer is one who should be mad but isn't.
The sorcerer is one who should be dead but isn't.
One is a sorcerer not by one's own choice - it's both blessing and curse.
Life is divine - it's a miracle even on an atheist view.
The divine is when human is not - that's why human should humble before life.
Human is a means of life not vice versa.
Understandable, or overstandable?

Yeah, for the most part. I don't get all of it though, what is meant by "one who should be dead but isn't?"

I didn't know that sorcerer had any divine implications, I always thought of one as a form of a mage or warlock.

Apr 6, 2011 17:46:27 GMT -5 adapa said:

Interesting discussion here. I've been many different types of "ists" in my life, monotheist, atheist, polytheist, pantheist, animist, omnitheist, and gods know what else. I'm not necessarily any of those now, I just pluck bits and pieces from each to create my own universe depending on what mental state I happen to be in at the moment.
Anyway, to get back to "Sumerian Verbs" just for a minute. I've been doing some looking after reading this thread and stumbled upon a book called Introduction to Sumerian Grammar, by Daniel Foxvog, dated 2010. I don't think I ever met Foxvog, but he was a student of Wolfgang Heimpel (that's a very good thing!) and he taught Sumerian at Berkeley for years. I've glanced through it and it looks very good. It does, however, look like very difficult reading. Sumerologists love grammatical techno-babble and this book is full of it. But he does provide lots of examples, which is very useful. You can view the book here: home.comcast.net/~foxvog/Grammar.pdf. If you want to download it just right click on the link and select "save link as."

Thank you very much Adapa! ;D

[enkur]

[/quote]
Yeah, for the most part. I don't get all of it though, what is meant by "one who should be dead but isn't?"

For example, to return from the Land of No Return

[/quote]
I didn't know that sorcerer had any divine implications, I always thought of one as a form of a mage or warlock.

Without having to do with the divine no mage could be a mage, no warlock could be a warlock, and no sorcerer could be a sorcerer

[us4-he2-gal2]

Greetz Ninurta2008 -


I suppose I will leave my comments about learning Sumerian to the other thread about ETCSL and ME etc.

In so far as religion goes I think you have very good consultants here with Enkur and Adapa - very rarely is the subject broached by intelligent and sober minds. Although basically non-religious myself, I am fascinated by Sumerian religion.

It's easy to trivialize the subject when questioning from our present vantage, whether, for example, the Sumerian gods were real or not? Man's attempts at positioning himself in existence is always developing and becoming more sophisticated - and at each phase the explanation is "the truth" as it has come to be - for example science is not consciously questioned many modern thinkers today.

For the intellectual it is satisfying to peer through these early worldviews like some sort of antique looking glass and to see how things fit together. In this way one does feel at least a limited connection with a distant and influential culture. To go beyond that and to rely on the beliefs of these beliefs to address or even solve your concerns is a huge step toward the religious - and requires one to be convinced that mankind has witnessed "the truth" at one or even at all of his various stages of perception.

[ninurta2008]

While I lack belief in a supernatural, I tend to want to look into religion. Just something about the myths and symbolism, and the ideas and wisdom that surrounds them, has a sort of appeal to me emotionally. Especially those of the ancient near east. I think it has to do with the distance in time, the remoteness of it.

[enkidu7]

Came across this thread, and although old, thought I'd chime in on my two cents on this discussion.

Keep in mind, the Human brain Biologically works very mechanically linear. Western society takes different systems of thought, when compared side by side with one another, to be seemingly contradictory to each other(On the surface). In other parts of the world however, most places take different philosophys as not contradictory but rather, complimentary towards one another.

Remember these are just different frames of references, not a one-to-one correlation between every metaphysical concept and every "reality" there is to match it. Personally, My beliefs, from the Absolute standpoint My views are that of Monism. On the Relative Level, My Views are Polytheistic. Contradictory no? Not really concerning Relative and Absolute states. Here's an interesting article to explain better what I mean.

www.patheos.com/blogs/sermonsfromthemound/2014/05/polytheistic-monism-christopher-scott-thompson-part-1/

Dont look too deeply into the "isms", Truth is Multi-dimensional not flat. Some of those "isms", brought up in this thread, in my view almost all compliment each other.

Ninurta, I used to be Atheist as well. I know how you feel, and what has lead you to become a Disbeliever, I've come to discover we are not all meant to think alike during our short journeys here passing through this earth, and I've long accepted that this is a law by Providence. I'm sure Inanna still cares for you whether you have a genuine belief in her existence or not. The Gods know very well it's difficult for us to comprehend their nature.  Never rely on anything only by just faith, you need to have experience. Nothing other than a Personal Profound direct experience with the Divine can relinquish all doubts for good.

Interesting thread.

and just for a little humor, has relevance to my point.   :

www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KXidr0z1RY

[enkur]

They are at least listening to each other