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Post by jotapetrucci on Jun 20, 2014 18:11:29 GMT -5
Hello everybody! Another guy looking for a cuneiform tattoo here ^_^ I'm guessing you get a lot of these type of request, so I'll understand if dont get too much attention ú_ù As you can imagine, I've got zero knowledge in the field. I'm work as It and study music. Nevertheless, after some research in the ETCSL website, this is my humble attent of translation: The phrase I'm trying to translate is: " Nobody speaks for the truth" After some research I came up with this translation: lu2 na-me zid dug4-ga-abBeing these the corresponding simbols:  I wasn't sure if dug4-ga-ab and dug4 would be the same symbol, so I used the dug4 one. If any of you could confirm me that the translation is correct I would apreciate it very much  Thank you very much for your help. This website really helped my with the translating work. Grettings! |
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Post by us4-he2-gal2 on Jun 21, 2014 15:20:01 GMT -5
Hello admitteddilettante and jotapetrucci: I will attempt to answer both of your current questions, hopefully along with help from other members as well. First I must make a response to admitteddilettante and then I will get to your post jotapetrucci. Learning to form an infinitive form in Sumerian is no easy task, but that shouldn't be surprising by this point. al The most approachable discussion of the way to form an infinitive that I have seen occurs in D. Edzard's Sumerian grammar (2003). Edzard mentions a verb form which is comprised of base + ede (p. 134). In some lexical lists, Sumerian verbs of this construction are listed alongside Akkadian infinitives, which indicates that such verbs can be translated something like an English infinitive "to do" "to say" etc. While the suffix -ede apparently has 3 letters to it, it seems thR the first /e/ is often dropped when following another vowel. So often, the de3 sign supplies the suffix de which is really (e)de - and this is the major indicator of an infinitive form. Below are 3 lines which utilize a base + (e)de3 construction, with values such as "to detect" "to inspect" and "to identify". These lines come from Inanna and Shukaletuda, ETCSL t.1.3.3: 6. niĝ2-erim2 niĝ2-si-sa2 zu-zu-/de3\ 7. šag4 kalam-ma-ka igi kar2-/kar2-de3\ 8. lul zid pad3-de3-de3 kur-ra ba-e-a-il2 "To detect falsehood and justice, to inspect the Land closely, to identify the criminal against the just, she went up into the mountains." As enkur mentioned earlier, the syntax is verb final. The word you are looking at for travel, ur, is only represented by 1 instance at the ePSD - further, although they give the translation "to roam," they give an Akkadian equivalent, pararu, which is translated "to dissolve" in Akkadian dictionaries. Therefore I am not confident about this word. You may be better advised to go with the Sumerian word "du" (which is a maru ("imperfect") form of the common verb ĝen - du/ĝen means "to go" but could easily have the nuance "to travel." The infinitive always takes the maru form of the base, in this case, du. The sign used to write du is basically an abstracted drawing of a foot: To form the infinitive, you would then add the de3 sign after this: So du-de3 should spell out the infinitive "to go" or "to travel." With a preceding noun meaning "world" or "totality" or "the four corners" you should have what your looking for. |
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Post by us4-he2-gal2 on Jun 25, 2014 15:54:35 GMT -5
jotapetrucci: You have done some nice work here! Sumerian is of course, very difficult to work with. I don't know how you made out so well, especially if you aren't doing this full time in school and so forth. Well, looking at what you have so far, I think there may be two problems which should be addressed before going forward with the tattoo. So 1) na-me seems to have the sense of "somebody" - so far, I don't think there is a negative indicator here that would cause this to be read as "nobody" and 2) I believe the verb form you are using is an imperative form. So dug4-ga-ab actually means "speak!" instead of "speaks." An example of this can be seen in the Sumerian proverb: nam-tar-re gaba-ri-me-en zid-du dug4-ga-ab erim2-du dug4-ga-ab "I am confronting Fate: "Speak in the way of a just man, or speak in the way of a wicked man, it makes no difference." ETCSL t.6.1.03 Jagersma's grammar of Sumerian discusses imperatives on page 556. Okay, so I will make a suggestion for new wording soon |
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Post by jotapetrucci on Jun 25, 2014 17:10:22 GMT -5
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darkl2030
dubĝal (scribes assistent)
Posts: 54
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Post by darkl2030 on Jun 27, 2014 17:55:31 GMT -5
I do not think the "infinitive" in de3 is what admitteddilettante wants. The -de3 is used for an instrumental infinitive, "in order to...," "when it was time to...," like in zu + infinitive root in German or ana + infinitive root in Akkadian. For an "infinitive" as a concept one would use either the naked root like kud "(the act of) cutting, (the concept of) to cut" or maybe perhaps the nominal abstract former nam + verbal root (nam-kud).
To say "nobody" in sumerian you use lu2 plus a negated verb. I'd translate what you want to say: "lu2 zid-de-eš(1/2) nu-dug4"
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Post by jotapetrucci on Jul 2, 2014 16:28:25 GMT -5
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Post by sheshki on Jul 2, 2014 18:30:24 GMT -5
 "lu2 zid-de-eš(1/2) nu-dug4" I used eš 2 eš |
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Post by us4-he2-gal2 on Jul 3, 2014 14:36:02 GMT -5
jotapetrucci:
This is a good result from darkl and sheshki - Thanks very much for your contributions guys! I think you would have a nice tattoo with grammatically correct Sumerian if you used this.
Just for further information, and so you are aware, it is true that "na-me" cannot mean "no one" by itself. It really does mean "someone" and only in combination with a verb form beginning with /nu/ can it mean "no one." The /nu/ element on the verb is a negating element. Thus, in all the examples you gave above, na-me combines with a verb which features the /nu/ negating element, meaning: negative someone (= no one) does the action. In any case, this can just as easily be communicated without na-me at all and that's what we have in darkl's translation.
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Post by jotapetrucci on Jul 6, 2014 6:19:21 GMT -5
Wow thanks everybody for the help!!  ) Hope I can show you pics of the tattoo soon. Just one more question strictly out of curiosity (after all the research I've done I'm starting to feel like I'm liking learning about sumerian translation haha): Why did you use the "zid-de-eš(1/2)" form instead of any other one? Thanks again pals! |
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Post by jotapetrucci on Sept 12, 2014 15:36:44 GMT -5
Hello guys! Here's the pic as promised. Thank you very much for your help See ya in the next tatoo haha Attachments:
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Post by us4-he2-gal2 on Sept 14, 2014 15:31:07 GMT -5
jotapatarucci:
This is an amazing tattoo - great job! Well formed wedges and sharp lines I think you went to the right tattoo artist as well. You have definitely joined the small group of people strange enough to get a cuneiform tattoo and the even smaller group of those who got it done right lol.
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