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Post by oipteaapdoce on Nov 29, 2008 2:16:04 GMT -5
I have seen many mentions of different flours and also of different stones used in the Mesopotamian magic. Are there any works that list the Latin botanical name of any of the ancient grains used? I'm assuming many are not known, but there has to be some? Or perhaps a book which talks about which crops were produced in that region throughout time? The temple supply lists would give some ideas as well, but are many of the flours even known?
With the stones, a few are mentioned by the modern name, and I suppose others could be figured out if a description was given, but I keep running into stone names that seem to be (as of yet) untranslated. Are there any sources out there which list which quarries there were in the Mesopotamian areas? Or perhaps even a modern account since the rocks of an area don't change all that much over time.
I am just assuming if the modern names for the items were known they would have been listed, but you never know. Perhaps there are more modern botony or geological books out.
I'll look up some of the flours and stones in particular which I have seen listed. I have read through so many posts and books I'm starting to lose track about what was where now.
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Post by ummia-inim-gina on Nov 29, 2008 12:54:56 GMT -5
Bottero discusses a lexical list identifying different grades of flour. I remembering him stating that there were dozens of different grades of flour but what the differences were is still unknown. Being a baker by profession, I found this an interesting contrast to the handful of grades modern millers produce. As for grains, the Sumerians mainly worked with Barely and a variety of wheats. Not much else was available to the region until much later in history. I'll see if I can find that list of flours so I can post it here. Mesopotamia is a mineral deficient river valley. So the Sumerians had to import their stones from adjacent regions. This poses a problem with identifying the Sumerian names for minerals with there modern counterparts in Iraq today. While there is also a lexical list of minerals available you might find it more interesting look over lines 416 to 637 of:
Ninurta's exploits: a šir-sud (?) to Ninurta (ETCSL 1.6.2.)
Many of the stones are not identified but some are listed in parenthesis. Even for the unidentified minerals the text often gives some indication of the use or value of the mineral. Here is a list of the stone discussed:
U stone (emery) Šu stone gasura stone saĝkal stone saĝĝar stones gulgul stone Esi (diorite) na stone elel stone kagena (haematite) ĝišnugal (alabaster) algameš stone dušia stone nir gug (cornelian) zagin (lapis lazuli) amaš-pa-e šaba ḫurizum gug-gazi marḫali egi-zaga girin-ḫiliba anzugulme nir-mušĝir stone gazi-musud stone ĝir-zu-ĝal (flint) iman stone alliga stone mašda stone dubban stone urutum stone Šagara stone marḫuša stone ḫaštum stone durul stone šegšeg stone engen ezinum stone ug-gun ḫem madanum saĝgirmud mursuḫ stone kurgaranum stone bal stone šembi (kohl)
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Post by ummia-inim-gina on Nov 29, 2008 17:58:16 GMT -5
Here is what the ePSD has:
flour asag [~FLOUR] wr. a-sag "a designation of flour" aš [FLOUR] wr. aš "bread; a type of flour" Akk. akalu; upumtu dabin [SEMOLINA] wr. dabin "semolina, barley grits" Akk. tappinnu dubdub [~FLOUR] wr. dub-dub "flour designation" edadi [FLOUR] wr. zid2e2-da-di "a type of flour" Akk. edadû eš [FLOUR] wr. eš2 "a flour" Akk. qēmu; upumtu eša [FLOUR] wr. eša "a fine flour" Akk. saskû kuš [MALT-FLOUR] wr. kuš7 "malt-flour" Akk. kukkušu mel [MALT-FLOUR] wr. mel "malt-flour" Akk. kukkušu metenum [BIN] wr. ĝešme-te-num2 "flour bin" Akk. meţēnu mundu [GROATS] wr. mun-du "groats" Akk. mundu niĝara [GROATS] wr. niĝ2-ar3-ra "groats" Akk. mundu utu [~CEREAL] wr. LAK384; utu2; utu5 "a cereal concoction" Akk. diktu zatum [FLOUR] wr. za-tum; za-al-tum "type of flour" Akk. zātu zid [FLOUR] wr. zid2 "flour" Akk. qēmu ziddubdub [FLOUR HEAP] wr. zid2-dub-dub "a flour heap" Akk. zidubdubbû zideša [FLOUR] wr. zid2-eša "a flour" zidgig [FLOUR] wr. zid2-gig "wheat flour" zidgu [FLOUR] wr. zid2-gu; zi3-kum; zikum; |ŠU2+ZI3| "a type of flour" Akk. isqūqu zidkukkuš [FLOUR] wr. zid2-kukkuš "a flour" zidmilla [FLOUR] wr. zid2-milla "flour" Akk. kukkušu zidmunu [RATION] wr. zid2-munu4 "a type of ration" Akk. isimānnu zidsig [FLOUR] wr. zid2-sig15 "a kind of flour" Akk. hišlētu
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Post by oipteaapdoce on Dec 4, 2008 13:52:21 GMT -5
Wow, thank you ummia-inim-gina for the quite extensive lists of both flours and rocks! It's too bad so many names are lost, but still interesting nonetheless. At least in some of the tablets the stone is described which helps to narrow down what it could be. Now call me silly, but I had no idea there were different grades of flours. Too bad about the extensive use of what and barley though as they have gluten in them <darn!>
Athena
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Post by ummia-inim-gina on Dec 4, 2008 15:10:35 GMT -5
Yeah a Celiac would have had it rough back in ancient Mesopotamia.
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Post by xuchilpaba on Mar 6, 2009 15:47:18 GMT -5
Is there a way to identify the stones they used and how they used them in magical cases?
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