Practical Magick

[asakku]

Hello,

I was interrested into Occultism and Magick since years, but this time i want to get serious. I really want to practice Magick, Occultism and Esoteric.

I started read with classical stuff like Crowley, Raja-Yoga, tyring to Meditate, Hermetic Traditions and so on, and so on.

But althought i respect many of this Systems, i always felt that i have to get in contact with Energy's from Mesopotamia. I didn't practice before, but the reason, i think, was that i always asked myself "Would the old Mesopotamians do that the same way?"

I talk about drawing circles on the ground, making a dagger, a wand and drawing signs in the Air etc. etc. I can't believe this is the right way to get into Mesopotamian Magick because it was invented in the West. This kind of stuff always reminds me more at european Wicca.


I need serious informations from people who had contact with Deitys like Tiamat, Lilith, Nergal, Baal, Dagon, Ea etc. I want to know how to start practice Magick to honour them and get in contact with these beeings.

This may sound redicilous but i always felt "my" Magick is a personal thing bewteen a Deity and Me. I don't need casting spells or something.. I just need the awareness, that my Deity is with me. In the past i felt this for a short time if it comes to the Indian/Bengali Godess Kali/Smashan Tara. So i see the Archetype of female Deity as a whole with many different Aspects.

Build up from this thought, i think all Mesopotamian Deitys are Aspects of a whole feminine Force...Like Kali is of Shakti for example. I guess Shakti would be the equivalent to Tiamat.

But enough of this Theory. Where should i start? Was it practice to meditate in ancient Mesopotamia? If yes..How? Like the Indian/Buddhism System?

Did they even know about meditation? How do they get in contact with gods ? (I do not want use drugs other than Frankincense or other burning Incenses). What they use for sacrifice? Maybe Honey? Beer?

What System they use ? I used to think if they were a high religious Culture (like the Vedic culture) they would have for surely build up an intelligent and interresting System for Magickal Work.

I hope a lot of people can give me informations and get me into this System.

[sheshki]

Well, personally im not interested in the occult/magic etc stuff, so i can´t give you advise on it but i was just in my pdf files and saw something that could be of interest for you.
--->Link

[sheshki]

Andrea just said to me that this --> Anointed: A Devotional Anthology for the Deities of the Near and Middle East. Editor Tess Dawson. 2011, Bibliotheca Alexandrina. is the book you want.

[asakku]

Thanks. I just buyed the Book "Anointed"...Very curious about it.

Edit: What i've read in the Test-Pages of Amazon, this is exactly what i was searching for. Thanks very much.

The Book you send me seems also very interresting...But it may be a bit too much scientific...I search the perfect mix of esoteric/occult practice based upon scientific apparentness.

i've buyed also "Chaldean Magic: Its Origin and Development" by François Lenormant

[us4-he2-gal2]

Asakku:







Well I would caution you against any sort of New Age eclecticism: that is, against following people who might be inspired by Crowley or Blavatsky types, and who might combine different traditions as if they are all basically compatible. In my opinion, its never useful to use Indian religion as a base for the practice of anything else, as Indian religion was such a radical departure.


When it comes down to it, I'm not really aware of systems of magic related to the Indic religions, Hinduism, Buddism, or Jainism. I guess that's not a proof that they don't have a magical system.. but it would come as some surprise to me. The Vedic religion seems more compatible with Mesopotamian religious notions, at least so far as this earlier layor of Indic religion had a focus on sacrifice to the gods, and on the gods themselves. But there is insufficient data to reconstruct the religious practices of the Vedic religion.. and later Indic religion (Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism) are drastically different. These religions are are not focused on the gods in any way, gods are not the point - the aim is to escape Samsara, to escape existence. This is wildily different from the thinking of Mesopotamia or any religion of the ANE.

Mainly this board focuses on practices which can be discerned from archaeological and textual evidence so we don't tend to attract much information through pagan means. There is no information from these sources about any individuals practice. If any individual had a private practice of magic in Mesopotamia, we will never know as they never wrote any of this down. What we do have is the records of a professional class of exorcists.

If the exorcists ever felt themselves to be in personal with the great gods, this is not so evident in the incantations texts. These texts are formulaic and traditional not personalized or improvised. They follow traditions which are said to embody the wisdom of Enki - but they do no meditate on Enki and ask him did you write this incantation: they follow the tradition. Usually, I don't think the Mesopotamians felt themselves to be in direct contact with the great gods. The average person may have had a personal god or family god they could pray directly to, and who may hear these prayers and in dire situations, be persuaded to intercede on a persons behalf with the great gods. The temple staff who were responsible for the upkeep of the divine statue etc. may have more direct contact with the great gods.



So in summary, its not as simple a matter as modern occult practitioners make it out to be and many modern ideas dont apply to Mesopotamia.









ʿ

[asakku]

Mar 4, 2013 0:14:25 GMT -5 us4-he2-gal2 said:

Well I would caution you against any sort of New Age eclecticism: that is, against following people who might be inspired by Crowley or Blavatsky types, and who might combine different traditions as if they are all basically compatible. In my opinion, its never useful to use Indian religion as a base for the practice of anything else, as Indian religion was such a radical departure.


When it comes down to it, I'm not really aware of systems of magic related to the Indic religions, Hinduism, Buddism, or Jainism. I guess that's not a proof that they don't have a magical system.. but it would come as some surprise to me. The Vedic religion seems more compatible with Mesopotamian religious notions, at least so far as this earlier layor of Indic religion had a focus on sacrifice to the gods, and on the gods themselves. But there is insufficient data to reconstruct the religious practices of the Vedic religion.. and later Indic religion (Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism) are drastically different. These religions are are not focused on the gods in any way, gods are not the point - the aim is to escape Samsara, to escape existence. This is wildily different from the thinking of Mesopotamia or any religion of the ANE.

Mainly this board focuses on practices which can be discerned from archaeological and textual evidence so we don't tend to attract much information through pagan means. There is no information from these sources about any individuals practice. If any individual had a private practice of magic in Mesopotamia, we will never know as they never wrote any of this down. What we do have is the records of a professional class of exorcists.

If the exorcists ever felt themselves to be in personal with the great gods, this is not so evident in the incantations texts. These texts are formulaic and traditional not personalized or improvised. They follow traditions which are said to embody the wisdom of Enki - but they do no meditate on Enki and ask him did you write this incantation: they follow the tradition. Usually, I don't think the Mesopotamians felt themselves to be in direct contact with the great gods. The average person may have had a personal god or family god they could pray directly to, and who may hear these prayers and in dire situations, be persuaded to intercede on a persons behalf with the great gods. The temple staff who were responsible for the upkeep of the divine statue etc. may have more direct contact with the great gods.



So in summary, its not as simple a matter as modern occult practitioners make it out to be and many modern ideas dont apply to Mesopotamia.

Dear Bill,

I know a lot of new Age Esotericism is just money-making.

But i see no problem in combine different traditions. This happened through whole History. Didn't the Akkadians mixed their Traditions with Sumerians? Didn't the Folk of the Levant mixed their traditions with Babylonian Traditions and Ideas? Didn'T The Egypts mixed their Religion with Greek traditions? Didn't the Persians do the same? There are Tons of different Traditions and Religions that getting influenced and combined because of several reasons. And it seems to work. If you would go back to the sumerian Religion, there will be a point where you will see, that even the sumerian Traditions was influenced by earlier impulses.


But to make it more clear about the topic of combination..I don't talk so much about the Rituals. I talk more about the Theory. In Fact there are, if you are a believer in Deitys and Esotericism basic facts. Like the principle of Female and Male Energy. Isn't the Energy that was seen behind Tiamat the same that was seen behind Tehom or Kali? And wasn't it the same if it comes to other gods like Apzu and Shiva ?

Certainly, the small details change - but that is depending on Regional environment and individual cultural development. Of course Shiva is not the freshwater, and Kali not the saltwater..because these aspects where only Important in Mesopotamia. But what i'am talking about is the basic features, than can offer an Archetype of God or Deity. Is it really wrong if we want to try and combine these Aspects ? Maybe we get a more whole and deeper view on cosmic concept in general, if we getting aware of every aspect, that is just a part from a whole.

The only thing that i personally think, that is important if it comes to combine, is that we have to seperate dualistic traditions and non dualistic traditions.


But enough with the theosophical talk. I know this board focus about practices right out of Archeological founds.
But that is the Problem (if we talk about active practice). If we know about that, it will not help us much if it comes to practice.

We get a description of what to do here and what to do there - But that is not the point. Don't think scientific here! It is not about reconstruction a scientific system of Religion here.. What important is, to know how the mesopotamians dealt with there Gods and deitys in their personal life. And as you said, only the temple staff was able to wrote; we will never know this. The daily spiritual life of normal humans is for me, what counts here.

As long we don't have much informations about this, we have to use other systems of practicing magick in combination. Who says this is wrong? And then, why should it be wrong?

[us4-he2-gal2]

Asakku:



It's just not an angle I take when approaching this material so I can't say much that will support this attempt. I would suggest for your particular goals you may want to make use of the academic information summarized here on this board, and combine that with people who do attempt a neo-pagan reconstruction as they term it - although I don't personally trust their conclusions. So in any case, such a board can be found at Tablet of Destinies yahoo group:

groups.yahoo.com/group/TabletofDestiny/


I used to know the board owner.

[asakku]

Thanks, that seems interresting

[enkur]

Tablet of Destiny is almost inactive.

Asakku, I've been into that 'occult' matter since about three decades, and I think that one should seek to get insights of the energy essence and neglect the occultists's interpretations, since they reflect mostly their personal wishful thinking. Almost the same applies to the academic approach where one should consider the facts only and discard the scholars's conclusions, since the gods haven't bestowed on them the gift to see the essence The combinations of both approaches are rare and valuable.

Seeing the sincerity of your interest, I would recommend channeling as the magically correct approach. In this particular case of Mesopotamia you need the academic facts about that multilayered culture and your own intuition. Channeling take place via the heart - the heart chakra is an energy fact but please forget all about Hinduism as Bill recommends. Parallels with what you may know about other cultures could be tricky, unless these cultures were contemporary as for example the Indus Valley culture (Meluha) was in respect to Sumer and the Old Babylonian period.

Great results are not to be expected and one should satisfy with the little one gets via channeling but once gotten it's more valuable than any occultist's interpretation or scholar's conclusion. By the way, those few of the scholars who are naturally empathic have the ability to channel far better than many alleged occultists though they do it unconsciously. In fact, any insight is gotten via channeling but the scholar's censor will hardly admit it. On the other hand, the wishful thinking and the lust of result is what blocks the channel ability of the occultists. In fact the most of the new-age occultists are seekers after alternative religions (i.e. believers) rather than actual magicians and sorcerers. Magic is based on the ability to feel and use energy, not on beliefs.