The Idea thread [Sticky]

[us4-he2-gal2]

The idea thread is not: A sign I myself, am running out of ideas about how the board should be structured or run. I hope Im demonstrating that I do put a good amount thought into this little dark space. I have ideas to spare on its development.. many, many ideas ;]

The idea thread is: Feedback. And an attempt to make good on what I have began to say to Enenuru members. And that is that this is a discussion group, it will be what we make it. To me, it is an experiment in group interaction, and in intellectual exploration. It is supposed to be something new and something that will always be entirely sustained by communal focus and enthusiasm.
Therefore I am putting here the prerogative to shape the board in all of your hands, and I will make the changes [having admin access at the board]. You can already suggest any aspect of Mesopotamian studies for study in the 'study topic ideas' thread.

But an idea placed on 'the idea thread' can take what ever form you like, an addition, a suggestion, a demand, a complaint - post a compaint I'm not kidding. Every 'idea' presented will be considered a fruitful thing. The solidarity of the project rests entirely on the basis that no one be excluded. Here is where you make sure you wont be. [Alternatively you can also email me directly.]

P.S. The idea thread is not meant to address the chief difficulty of all current Enenuru members. That is time. But it is meant to maximize what time there is. (However if anyone has any ideas how I can stop wasting my time at work Id take those.)

[us4-he2-gal2]

In recognition of the fact that not eveyone will share my contentment in dwelling on 4 threads for weeks and weeks at a time, and in recognition of the fact that the Discussion Board lacks threads my suggestion is that the "Study topic Suggestions" board be scrapped.
I thought this board was a good idea, I still think it was to some extent in that it would have helped to establish the unique identity of this board. But it doesnt make good logistics to Suspend a subject outside of Discussion range when the main Discussion board is in need of more varied content - I suggest all study topic suggestions become instead thread starters hence forward, and that the change be made reasonable soon

[saharda]

I was wondering if we could have an open list along side this closed list.

[saharda]

What I mean by that is that we should have an open board that anyone can join as well as a closed board that is invitation only for research purposes. That would suit both of our needs and allow for research to benefit everyone, and allow the new Sumerians to benifit from a larger community.

[us4-he2-gal2]

Thank you for making use of the "idea thread" this is the first thing to convince me that the thread itself wasnt a bad idea..heh.

I think the new Sumerians/open board would always be the larger community ;] But of course Id want my ponderings to benefit the Sumerian interest community at large, we will always grow from such an outcome. Hopefully others feel the same way.
Starting such a community would be extremely easy, establishing the logistics of how it would co-exist or correlate to this project would be much trickier. So those are some open questions hm.

[us4-he2-gal2]

*Conventions for Enenuru*

If you've seen my recent enthusiasm for sophistication, personal and board-wide, this "idea" probably will be no surprise. I really think that progress and this type of discipline will go hand in hand, as removed from any context as it may feel at first.

-In addition to the conventions of accents/subscript numbers reviewed elsewhere, I wanted to draw attention to Madness's post in "UrIII Incantations" reply#2, hes got the actual alphabetical determinative (little floating d) and tiny x and subscript numbers going on, and the little 'ki' - Nice work M! (now how the hell did you do that?)

-The idea Im getting to here is the adoption of some additional conventions for the board. I think that if information presented could assume a standardized, it would be that much more potent in approaching obscure and difficult understandings. To begin with:

1. Sumerian words can consistently appear in a 'normalized' form in secondary source's or in English translations at the etcsl for example, the name "Meš-Ane-pada" in translation just so, yet appears in transliteration as "meš3-an-ne2-pad3-da." To address this, whenever a Sumerian word is under discussion, I suggest the following convention:

There was once a king Meš-Ane-pada [meš3-an-ne2-pad3-da] yadda yadda yadda..

The color here is tiel. An example of this convention in use is on the thread "Overall Incorporeality". Use your best judgment when it would be appropriate to include the transliterated form.

2. It would be a great step forward to include Museum number's whenever possible when discussing a given text. For example Madness's reply#2 on the 'UrIII Incantations' thread has van Dijk's text#73 iand includes museum number [NBC 11106] .
I have recently been guilty of confusing Museum numbers with publication references. An example of a publication reference - the aboove incantartion/tablet is 'YOS 11 73' that is 'Yale Oriental Series number 11 text 73.' So in sum, if your going to be resourceful enough to include a tablet number, make sure your not presenting a publication reference by mistake..;] (the color is brown)

3. I anticipate Cunningham's survey of the early incantations and his corresponding text numbers, will become the standard way to reference these texts, if Im not mistaken. Hence a convention to indicate a Cunningham text number can be, in example, [TEXT 59]. (I should mention this is the same incantation mentioned above, publication reference YOS 11 73, museum number [NBC 11106]

4. Akkadian words should be italicized, as is standard. In example napištu

The idea here is not to exclude posts which do not utilize these conventions, thats not my thinking. But it is to provide a framework intended to maximize the potency of this board. I welcome all efforts to actualize this idea, and to make this project a true resource.
These conventions are tentative, presented as an idea for the board, feel free to contact me for or with assistance in the development of this idea.
cheers

[saharda]

I like the convention. We might also have a different color for adapted texts / modern English texts and direct translations. Perhaps green.

[saharda]

I'm thinking that we need to reorganize the threads somewhat. This board is Inexorably linked to T/S. As such it should be used to point out any flaws and areas that T/S should be improved. I plan on having T/S updated with that ritual material we were discussing for example, and it needs to be reviewed.

We also need to have other categories. Modern Religion, Mythological Analysis, T/S review, and history are some folders that should be added if we can do that.

[madness]

Kohl, and others interested

To add superscript or subscript text to your post, take a look at the many Tag buttons available when you are creating a post. You will notice the 5th and 6th buttons from the right in the bottom row. They are the sup and sub buttons.

Simply highlight some text and click either button.

[us4-he2-gal2]

In response to Reply 6 and 7 above:

Thank you Saharda for recognizing the intention of this thread. I stand by the description at the top "Every 'idea' presented [here] will be considered a fruitful thing. The solidarity of the project rests entirely on the basis that no one be excluded."
And again this thread is in effect an open forum so that those present might learn the ambitions of one another, and for me to get an idea what people want. (Though its probably been noted that I'll ramble to eternity without any real idea of this.)
As a member (and not as an Administrator) I would want to acknowledge your proposals here, as such should be actively addressed and given the chance for comment by others if their inclined.
As a contributing member then, currently dangerously engaged in this project, I can tell you my personal position is that we will need every bit of focus and resource available and more to achieve just the research goals already committed to. Can more topics for research be suggested? Sure.
To put it as plainly as possible I disagree T/S should enter into direct focus here. This would constitute nothing less in practice, then the merging of two projects, and metaphorically, two languages.
I want to see here an opportunity, unique in my experience, for stundents of the ANE (literal and figurative) to discuss and dissect in detail Mesopotamian magic, culture and obscurity in as technical a language as can be managed.
The diversion in part or in full, of focus even to a project which in some regards parallels Enenuru conceptually, would to me be ill-timed, and possibly negatively impact the final production tally here.


Short of fusing intentionally or otherwise the two distinct animals, and confusing the tongues which define them, is there a way in which T/S might be kept abreast of the information here?
Just because I dont advocate a merge to the extent of your proposals, this doesnt equate to a move toward information hording.
Should tablets be caste back to the dirt, the memory of the ancients fade again to nothingness, and the unique achievement of the Assyriologist be positioned to crumble? If the answer is no, it should follow that information hording as a practice is despicable, is an oblivion in itself, and that wherever refined and sophisticated transmission of these informations can be facilitated to interested persons, they should be, and that this is growth.
So I would fully support a functional application of the hard to find facts recorded at Enenuru. The only thing I as a member am disagreeing with, is that structurally speaking, Enenuru might grow a double head, might divert focus from research threads before said research or threads are actually realized/completed. Careful Focus in the direction by now well attested, being the only thing that will see them completed at all.

cheers.

[madness]

Request: Threads that have been made as a sticky thread, have the word [Sticky] in their title.

The reason for this is that I noticed there were new threads being made in the general section, however I was confused as to why they were not being pushed to the top of the section. And then I realised that was because there are sticky threads. Although they are marked with the sticky icon they are otherwise easy to miss that they are sticky, and I found that to be a sticky situation.

[us4-he2-gal2]

***Moved Aug 6
Originally posted by zaqiqu Aug 2 [Sisig thread]

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I'd love to comment on this, but these posts are simply too long to follow. Perhaps breaking things down into smaller bunches would help with readership?


***Admin: Ah - I can tell you I am currently in the process of re-formatting and "refining" all of my posts here. The aim is mainly to correct typographical failings, but in the process things also assume some 'Enenuru conventions' making it easier to read, see the vampire thread for examples. This thread will follow suit. So good idea, possibly one for the idea thread.
Id have to say I wouldnt see the possibility of increasing readership as a particularly fruitful thing, you must be familiar with one of my attempts to increase membership however. There's a distinct difference..Hence I invite you going forward, to post under your own identity, should you choose to be a member here. I appreciate your input, but usually cant take comments from anonymous sources as having much substance to them, my good Zaqiqu

[us4-he2-gal2]

***Moved Aug 6
Originally posted by Urnammu Aug 6 [Sisig thread]

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I'm not sure I follow the "distinct difference" argument. You post to a site asking for people to participate in these discussions, but your discussions are fairly long collections of cut-and-pasted data without a coherent point or a question. It's hard for anyone-- novice or expert-- to wade through and see what your point is. And if you want people-- particularly experts-- to stick around, then it seems like driving some point home for discussion would be key.

[us4-he2-gal2]

For the constuctive elements of your idea, Urnammu, I give due consideration. However in this responce I take a moment to undefine some of the things you -to whatever degree of intention- have redefined in those comments (suggestions). For clarity.

"asking" = inviting.

Acutally Im not trying obtain any un-interested experts. Im not trying to have anyone 'stick around'. If experts would like to "pass through" they can type login: "zaqiqu" password "passingthrough" get bored out of their skull and flit away , open up a page of AOAT 258, issue an evil laugh, and destroy an extra large box of twinkies.
Sticking around is a persons own responsibility, their own prerogative, and is at least implied by the choice to become a member as opposed to continuing with the guest login. Further as this is a discussion group, it is a given that a person choosing membership, and perceiving a lack in discussion, could demonstrate their worth, their efficacy, in *MAKING* that discussion. That goes for experts to, be they guests of honor or no.

[saharda]

In the Udug Hul section under Demonology I adopted the following conventions. (Conventions listed again in thread) Orange for direct translation. In this case taken word for word from the Geller translation of the Udug Hul texts. Tan for my adaptation of the text, and green with Italics for my commentary and thoughts on the text.

[madness]

I suggested to us4-he2-gal2 that a "recycling" section of the board be set up, which is now available. See the Moratorium Area.

My reason for this is to give people an area to construct a thread or post, before submitting it to its appropriate section. Typically a person would write up a post in Microsoft Word, for example, and perhaps they will spend days or weeks on it, and then finally submit it when it is ready. However no one else has a chance to preview it until it is submitted, as it is saved locally to the person's hard drive. Now, with a construction zone, other people are able to view the unfinished post, and it may benefit from their remarks or criticism before being finalised.

Secondly some people, myself included, have been doing this construction process with posts that they have already submitted, meaning that you end up with posts that have been edited a hundred times, and people may not notice this and will miss out on the changes. Perhaps now that can be avoided.

Thirdly it can be used as a dumping ground, a kind of recycling centre. Some threads may be revised when it is deemed necessary, such as the Sisig thread. But what happens with the old thread? Instead of taking up space, it can be put into recycling where it can be referred to later if needed. Also, sometimes a person wishes to post something, but they do not know which section it belongs to, so they simply choose the General Board, which we have been seeing a lot of, lately. In my opinion, those posts should go into the Moratorium Area, and the General Board should be kept wholly off-topic.

[us4-he2-gal2]

Well Obviously I haven't been keeping this thread updated but I can assure you, I have been having ideas anyway...

- Just a reminder the board no longer features the "attachment" option in which users can attach files to posts - however, we have since then opened enenuru.net, if any members would like to store files or pictures or link them to post please send your item to [e-mail] with a brief explanation and I will upload file to enenuru.net and add the file link to your post.

- Enenuru chat is open! and its so easy - just click 'chat' on the menu at the top of this forum, and type in your name, then hit enter. Browsers supported seem to be Mozilla and IE though unfortunatly not Opera?

Log in today and sit aorund for awhile. It's the only way to get the ball rolling! YAY

[xuchilpaba]

Shout box.

Get one at the top of the page. It's like chatting and posting, mixed.