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Post by lilitudemon on Mar 7, 2015 2:38:11 GMT -5
I had no idea where to put this! So, if I put it in the wrong board I apologize. Basically, I was reading the Gods, Demons, & Symbols an illustrated dictionary, by Black and Green, the entry about the eight pointed star which originally was an astral symbol associated with the planet Venus and then later Ishtar, here:  It also mention sparsely, I think in Ishtar's entry the six pointed star. It wasn't really researched and it has an unknown usage. The only image I could find is here:  Does anyone know anything about it? |
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Post by enkur on Mar 7, 2015 6:09:09 GMT -5
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Post by sheshki on Mar 8, 2015 16:04:33 GMT -5
The moon/star/sun symbol seems to be 100% restored and as far as i can see there is no original part in this area. So it looks pretty but it is basically fictional. One would have to see the unrestored version of the stela. |
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Post by sheshki on Mar 8, 2015 16:15:46 GMT -5
from: Beyond Babylon, Art, Trade, and Diplomacy in the Second Millenium B.C.
by Cemal Pulak
page 350
The star disc as a symbol of Ishtar, the sun disc in the form of a four-rayed star
with undulating rays between them as Shamash, and the lunar crescent as Sin are found
in Mesopotamia throughout the Bronze Age. Ishtar, the goddess of love and war, was manifest as Venus,
the morning and evening star, and was often represented as a disc inscribed with an eight-rayed star, but sometimes also fewer rays.
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Post by enkur on Mar 9, 2015 18:58:29 GMT -5
Why then the original eight-rayed star wasn't restored instead? Where the unrestored version of the Ur-Namma stele could be seen?
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Post by sheshki on Mar 9, 2015 19:29:59 GMT -5
Why it was restored the way it is can only answer those who did it. There is at least one book about it. The Ur-nammu Stela by Jeanny Vorys CanbyQuote from the websites text: The stela had been ten feet high with registers in relief of scenes of religious practices on both front and back. By 1927 the best pieces had been restored in Philadelphia into an imagined version of the stela, with plaster filling the gaps. But more than twice as many small or worn pieces were omitted from the restoration and dutifully stored in boxes at the Museum. Another possibility would be the excavation report from when it was found. Here is a picture of a fragment...  Looks like further investigation is needed  |
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Post by sheshki on Mar 11, 2015 9:40:45 GMT -5
Ur-nammu stela fragments, UPenn Museum link |
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Post by us4-he2-gal2 on Mar 12, 2015 19:29:14 GMT -5
Hey everyone - Yes, there are a few thorny issues here. First, about Ur-Nammu's Stele, I think enkur has brought up an interesting item here for sure. Sheshki's information that the top of the stele may indeed be suspect, that is, mis-identified as belonging to the original stele, is of course also astute. I have had Canby's little book "The Ur-Nammu Stele" in my hands before, but unfortunately do not have access to it at the moment. What I will say about the problem is that it just another one of those art history subjects that won't likely leave us with any certain answers in the near future. There is another scholar at the British Museum, J. Reade, who maintains that Canby made a mistake in not including said pieces in her final (paper) reconstruction of the stele. For her discussion see here. Whether Canby or Reade are correct would likely be difficult or impossible for us to determine as these people have the objects in their hands and still can't agree. It is somewhat interesting that Reade, if she is in fact referring to the iconography we are discussing (which I think she is) refers to the astral symbol in question as a "sun disk" . This brings up another issue in Mesopotamian art and that is when to identify a star or a sun given that both have rays, and the number of rays can vary and the symbols can look quite alike (although the sun disk generally has a circle or ring around it). Further, scholars usually hesitate to identify star iconography in art as specifically referring to Inanna/Ishtar, because it can have a range of other values such as An, heaven, gods in general - *unless* said star occurs in a sequence of symbols including sun, moon and star; in most cases, it is only in said sequences that scholars are certain that they are dealing with the star symbolizing Inanna/Ishtar/Venus.
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Post by lilitudemon on Mar 13, 2015 4:47:48 GMT -5
^Wow, it sounds very complex. I didn't realize just how many uses the symbol had or the variations. It sounds like different eras re-appropriatd the symbols several times, mixing them up with other astral symbols. It could be a regional thing too. Almost like a meme.
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Post by sheshki on Apr 8, 2015 13:19:42 GMT -5
Article on the reconstruction of the Urnammu stela >>>link<<< |
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