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Post by hukkana on May 4, 2015 5:41:46 GMT -5
I noticed there is a sub forum for Egyptian-Mesopotamian cultural and religious interactions, but what about interactions between Sumer and it's direct neighbours, be it Hittites in Anatolia (see the presence of multiple Ištar cults in the Hittite sphere of influence) or the Elamites and other peoples of the Zagros (see the lengthy wars between Elam and her nieghbours, as well as the incorporation of various non Elamite deities into the land at various periods, or the presence of the Elamite Išme-Karab/Išnikarap, an Elamite Oath, Judicial and Netherworld Goddess in the An Anum)
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Post by seeker666utu on May 18, 2015 16:19:13 GMT -5
I'd love to see something like this too.
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Post by hukkana on May 20, 2015 6:27:27 GMT -5
Nobody has made a thread for the Hittites and Sumer, because Hatti and Sumer interactions do not exist as a topic. I used Sumer, perhaps a tad incorrectly, more as a geographic designation then anything, related among other things to Assyrians interacting with the Hittites, such as the case of Kanesh. I would include basically all inhabitants of countries of the cuneiform civilisations into this topic, sorry for being non specific. |
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Post by enkur on May 24, 2015 7:30:44 GMT -5
Of course the interactions between Hatti and Sumer were indirect. The Hittites conquered Babylon in 1595 BCE and enabled the Kassite rule there. The cultural interaction between Hatti and Mesopotamia is a fact. The evidences are there provided somebody wants to see them. Hatti was called the land of the thousand deities. The Hittites via the Hurrians did adopt Mesopotamian religious concepts and cults. The Hurro-Hittite myths witness a development of certain Mesopotamian mythological themes on their own. 4 years ago when Enenuru still tolerated some alternative approach to the Ancient Orient lore I wrote a thread on this topic: enenuru.proboards.com/thread/356/mesopotamian-deities-hittite-mythos |
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Post by enkur on May 24, 2015 8:03:54 GMT -5
It's also interesting why there are no factual evidences of interactions between Sumer and Egypt when both the civilizations co-existed not too far from each other. Where is the scholar logic here?
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Salmu
dubsar (scribe)
Posts: 79
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Post by Salmu on May 24, 2015 14:01:30 GMT -5
I understood that this thread was not for that topic however, that there is no evidence of contact is not entirely correct: (the first volume is also useful for the topic of this thread). Aruz, J. Beyond Babylon: Art, Trade, and Diplomacy in the Second Millennium B.C. 2008. Page 68 discusses trade with 4th millennium Egypt, specifically in lapis lazuli. It may be accessed here: www.metmuseum.org/research/metpublications/Beyond_Babylon_Art_Trade_and_Diplomacy_in_the_Second_Millenium_BCChronology Joffe, A. ‘Egypt and Syro-Mesopotamia in the 4th Millennium: Implications of the New Chronology’. Current Anthropology 41, 2000: 113-123. Iconographic transfer Sievertsen, U. ‘Das Messer vom Gebel el-Arak’. Baghdader Mitteilungen 23, 1992: 1-75. Cialowicz, K.M. Les palettes égyptiennes aux motifs zoomorphes et sans décoration. Études de l’art prédynastique 3. 1991. Williams, B., T.J. Logan, and W.J. Murnane, ‘The Metropolitan Museum Knife Handle and Aspects of Pharaonic Imagery before Narmer’. JNES 46, 1987: 245-228. Boehmer, R.M. ‚Das Rollsiegel im Prädynastichen Ägypten’. Archäologischer Anzeiger 4, 1974: 495-514. Hartung, U. ‚Prädynastische Siegelabrollungen aus dem Friedhof U in Abydos (Umm el-Qaab). Mitteilungen des Deutschen Archäologischen Institut, Abteilung Kairo 54, 1998: 187-217. Teissier, B. ‘Glyptic Evidence for a Connection between Iran, Syro-Palestine and Egypt in the Fourth and Third Millennia’. Iran 25, 1987: 27-53. |
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Post by hukkana on May 24, 2015 15:55:43 GMT -5
Of course the interactions between Hatti and Sumer were indirect. The Hittites conquered Babylon in 1595 BCE and enabled the Kassite rule there. The cultural interaction between Hatti and Mesopotamia is a fact. The evidences are there provided somebody wants to see them. Hatti was called the land of the thousand deities. The Hittites via the Hurrians did adopt Mesopotamian religious concepts and cults. The Hurro-Hittite myths witness a development of certain Mesopotamian mythological themes on their own. 4 years ago when Enenuru still tolerated some alternative approach to the Ancient Orient lore I wrote a thread on this topic: enenuru.proboards.com/thread/356/mesopotamian-deities-hittite-mythos You just reminded me of the sheer immensity of Hittite deities. I don't have access to Van Gessel's "Onomasticon of the Hittite Pantheon" but even if I did I would probably spend a few years on that alone ! Also when looking for "Ishtar of Arbela" I found a paper on Jstor that seems to deal with a hymn Ashurbanipal which seems to invoke Ishtar of Arbela and Ishtar of Nineveh as two seperate deities, the paper in question being "Ishtar of Nineveh and Her Collaborator, Ishtar of Arbela, in the Reign of Assurbanipal", by Barbara Nevling Porter. I'd like to read it as it may be related partially to the discussion, and it's only 4 pages but my Jstor shelf is full. Edit: Wait I have an account there and it worked until recently. You can't tell me I can no longer acess works on my shelf as an independent researcher and have to be registered through an institution, when I'm not part of any institution ? >_> Edit 2? Nevermind it seems to have been a glitch. |
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Post by enkur on May 25, 2015 12:17:34 GMT -5
Even without that information certain artifacts like this one from the archaic Egypt speak to me that there was some interaction with Sumer.  Yet thanks for the link anyway. Attachments:
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Post by enkur on May 25, 2015 12:39:55 GMT -5
Hukkana's example with the self-praising text of Ashurbanipal where Ishtar of Arbela and Ishtar of Nineveh are mentioned as two separate deities recalls of the many "Marses" and "Jupiters" spread throughout the Roman Empire and syncretised with the local deities of other cultures. Why should be the Hittite syncretism of Shaushka and Ishtar so lightly denied?
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