Introductions [Sticky]

[thecove]

Greetings -

I came here out of curiosity via Naomi's site...

Considered not registering and surfing on but recalled the fact that I also am curious about this subject and have studied it to some extent.

Been pondering the systematic emulation of ancient culture patterns - like a fan club that just got way out of hand - in the wrong hands.

If I can provide any insight into matters I shall attempt to do so.

[george616]

Hello from foggy London. By way of introduction, I'd like to write a bit about something I've been trying to get to grips with: The Greek Magical Papyri. This might be at a bit of a tangent to the main concerns of Enenuru, but I hope it'll be of some interest all the same.

The Greek Magical Papyri is a name given by scholars to a collection of spells, incantations, rituals and prayers found in Egypt in the nineteenth century. These date back to when Egypt was under Greek and then Roman rule, about 332BCE- 500CE.
Magical books did exist at this time but they were heavily suppressed. For example, the Bible records one example, when as a result of Paul's proselytizing in Ephesus (an ancient city famous for magic, located in now what's western Turkey):

Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned then before all men: and they counted the price of them, and they found it fifty thousand pieces of silver.
So mightily grew the word of God and prevailed.
After these things were ended, Paul purposed in the spirit... (Acts of the Apostles 19:19)

Sometimes not just the magical books but the magicians themselves were burned. But some magical books survived, having been collected by philosophers and theologians, astrologers and alchemists. They were so well cached in the hot, dry Egyptian desert sands that they lay there intact until their discovery in the nineteenth century.

So what's in the papyri? It's basically a type of condensed religion. There are elements of Greek, Roman/Mithraic, Egyptian, Hebraic/Gnostic and Babylonian religion. But these elements are blended in a process of syncretisation. For example, Ereskigal is identified with Selene, Kore (Persephone) , and Hekate. (By the way, there are also also some daemons in there with double wings which look Babylonian to my untrained eyes.)

There is a dream-like quality to many of the spells. For example, in PGM XII 1-13, after some preparations with a funeral shroud, a sword and an initial set of voces magicae (incantations, in capital letters in the modern translations):

After you say this, the Maiden [Kore/Persephone] will come carrying torches. Say: PHERTHELILOCH PEIY... and her firebrands will be extinguised, and she will stand there in distress and complain.
You say, "Do such-and-such and I will light your torches." If she sends a dream, you are to light them and she will fly away./ If you send her to kill somebody, give her the sword and she will give you the torches and return with the sword covered with blood. Tell her that the torches belong to her; they will catch fire, and she will take flight... [Hans Dieter Betz, "The Greek Magical Papyri in Translation", University of Chicago Press, 1992)

In my opinion the spells have this strange quality because they are about gnosis and not "faith." The spells don't demand belief: They take you there. They pull something in from the unknown.

Within the spells, the voces magicae are what power the signal the magician is sending to the divine or daemonic level. They do this by using a core of neo-Pythagorean number mysticism. Here, an essential read is "Hermetic Magic" by Dr. Stephen E. Flowers Phd. (Weiser Books, 1995.) He explains the process of unlocking the voces magicae. (Other books don't have this.)

Anyway I can write more on this if people are interested.

A late edit, to mention an interview with Dr. Flowers in which he discusses Hermetic Magic, within the context of his larger Work: www.newdawnmagazine.com/articles/Conversation%20with%20Dr%20Stephen%20Flowers.html

[us4-he2-gal2]

TheCove:


Welcome to the board, I'm sure you have the inquisitiveness it usually takes to enjoy some topics here if you have comes from Naomi's site Certainly message me if you want orientations to the material - I love that pic and font color, probably an enenuru first


George:

I think someone is angling for your information there - she's a recruiter for Abrahadabra Im sure of it! Thank you for the introduction and offer with the subject of Greek magic, and it is definitely a fascinating subject. Naomi is right in so far as we tend to keep it tightly focused on Sumerian and sometimes Mesopotamian subject matter here, but theres potential that the two subjects may touch on the subject of magic. We should discuss the subject on facebook and if we can find a real cross cultural comparison, could present those results cheers.

[madness]

Hello

Just noting here my change of email address.

Whether you want to share your love or need to vent some hate mail, please direct your attention to the icon on the left.

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[xuchilpaba]

Welcome George.

[Salmu]

bloody hell the things Sheshki badgers me into

he has said i should write here: hi i am Andrea, from Australia.yes
..i like to curse, hence this site.....
oh and researching a masters in near eastern iconography, Bronze Age...but my bias is also in the linguistics

[alvean]

Hi all,
I'm Alvean, from Italy.
My interest in ANE studies began when I was 14, reading Sitchin's first book.
It was love at first sight with Mesopotamian cultures.
Since then, I had to wait 5 years to finally begin studying this subjects at academical level.
Now I am seing, through the fog, the end of my First Level Laurea (december).
At high school I studied classical subjects, so I am quite prepared in Latin and Greek studies.
At University I'm following a degree course called "Scienze dei Beni Culturali", something like "Cultural Heritage", which is not ANE focused, but it contains, among 30 differents subjects, an Egyptology course, an Assyriology course (Akkadian grammar and art) as well as one ANE History course and I (hope I) will soon get my degree in Assyriology
Here at my University, ANE studies are particularly focused on NA period, which is not my favourite, but it gives me the opportunity of knowing many Assyriologists from other Countries, because biennally we organize an academical workshop on these subjects (the various articles presented are published in a journal called KASKAL kaskal.uniud.it/, unfortunately it cannot be examined online)
I also have experience in Archaeology (esp. survey and catalogue), but only in Italy (Aquileia) and in Anatolia, in a not-even-a-tell site that goes from calcholitic/hittite/phrygian periods, 50 km far from Hattusa.
My purpose here is learn, learn, learn : )
And, of course, teach Bill how to cook some genuine Italian food

[sheshki]

Hi Andrea, Hi Alvean,

welcome on board. Nice that you found your way in.You´ll see, we are like a family here

[us4-he2-gal2]

Hey Andrea, and Alvean -


Welcome to the board I'm sure we have much cooking, iconography and cuneiform antics in store for you. Mmmm tasty

[cinnamon1991]

Hey,
I'm Chris (Cinnamon1991) and I came here through Mysticwicks.com.
I live in the Netherlands, so I'm sorry if my English isn't that good or has got some odd phrases.
I'm interested in Egyptology, Assyriology, Archeology, iconography, old cultures and their religions, etc.

I'm interested in Sumerian paganism and especially the goddess Ereshkigal.
Oh and now I don't know what else to write down here, haha.

- Chris

[sheshki]

Hello Chris,

welcome on board and i hope you find the informations you need.

Here is a link to a discussion about the cult of Ereshkigal, maybe you already found it.

enenuru.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=expel&thread=208&page=1

[afterviewer]

AfterViewer, here. Thanks to All and especially the Administration for allowing me access to your creation. As a logician and alien/researcher. I am most interested in studying the ancient Sumerian reality and their "instruments", in particular. Looking forward to exploring the many caverns and communicating with you all on this "find". Your friend, AV. PS: Google AfterViewer for profile info.

[us4-he2-gal2]

Thanks for your generous appraisal Afterburner - I hope your find the information here useful and feel free to contact me directly with any questions. Regards ;]

[afterviewer]

Thanks, us4-he2-gal2. A great read in all directions. Much to absorb. there is a body of information I have been looking at that I will bring to your attention in the near future. Something you may already be familiar with. At first I did'nt know what to make of it, because it seems to run parallel with another field of ongoing data. In any case, much of the puzzle pieces are dealing with ancient origins, Sumerian, in particular. Still scratching my head, but will divulge my findings sometime soon. Once again ,thanks for your hospitality. AV.

[sheshki]

welcome on board afterviewer. nice to have you here.

[afterviewer]

Hey sheshki, Thanks for the welcome. Reading and exploring the site whenever I get the opportunity ( the work-a-day world has me bound), extraordinary translations in some of the posts I have read so far. All in the details, enlightening! AV.

[Tiamat4Lilith]

Hi there

My names George, im a new member was directed here by a friend on facebook, as to why i joined have to say i have interest in babylon and sumeria, probably due to my pagan eclecticism and was drawn to some lovely deities so now researching into the mysteries more. I hope to make some new friends and learn a few things too.

So thanks for having me

[sheshki]

Hi George,

welcome on board hope you find the informations your looking for.

shesh-ki

[Tiamat4Lilith]

Jul 18, 2009 19:22:50 GMT -5 sheshki said:

Hi George,

welcome on board hope you find the informations your looking for.

shesh-ki

Thanks for the welcome, its much appreciated see you around the board x

[katrinav]

HI people. My name is Katrina. Wondering if anyone can recommend any journals with new information on our beloved subject?? It's so hard to find information that wasn't published 20 years ago!!

[sheshki]

Hello Katrina,
welcome on board. I hope you enjoy our little family here.
For news on the ANE field i recommend the agade mail service. Its not only about Mesopotamia, but also about Egypt and the Mediterranean sea cultures.
Here is a quote from Bills periodical from June:

This is the AGADE mail service for news and updates in the world of Ancient Near East studies - if you join up they will send you updates about events in scholarly circles, books and web resources and so on. I don't actually know alot about the service because this one comes to us from Andrea (thanks Andrea!, and is recommened additionally by Sheshki. To join send an email to [e-mail] and make your subject "subscribe Agade" (without quotes) - leave message blank.

[katrinav]

Thanks for all the welcomes! And thanks for the Agade suggestion, suscribed!

I have another question, I feel the answer might be very simple and embarrassing, but I can't for the life of me figure it out. This is an excerpt from an article on Aceramic Neolithic period by Tatiana Kornienko:

"Recent reports on Jerf el-Ahmar and Tell ‘Abr 3 (Syria, Middle Euphrates) reveal that the public structures at these sites (EA 7 and EA 30 at Jerf el-Ahmar during the PPNA period; EA 53 and EA 100 at Jerf el-Ahmar and B2 at Tell ‘Abr 3 during the PPNA/PPNB transition period)"

WHAT DOES "EA" STAND FOR???

[us4-he2-gal2]

Hello Katrinav:




Welcome to the board - it is rewarding to see that new members with good questions continue to join. In answer to your first question, I would mention our Periodicals thread which is here. This gives a list of Academic journals related to Assyriology - there are others but these are the most important. I can talk to you sometime about ways to access these.


As for your second question, this is very likly standing for El-Amarna and refers to Knudtzon's work:

EA : J. A. Knudtzon, Die El-Amarna-Tafeln (= VAB II, Leipzig 1915)


You can tell this by referencing the CDLI Abbreviations for Assyriology guide which is found here. Other guides to abbreviations exist although this one is the easiest to access. Will send you an orientation mail shortly

[katrinav]

Thanks! I dont think that EA stands for El-Amarna though, for a few reasons. The article deals with the Pre-pottery period, el-amarna was only built around 1350. Also the article deals mainly with the Hallan Cemi site and a few other sites all in northern mesopotamia, nothing about Egypt. Although i just though of something.. could it stand for 'excavated area' 'EA' appears all throughout the article, each time it is numbered. EA 15 found on such and such site, EA 44 found on another site. im about to call this Tatiana and be like WTF???

[us4-he2-gal2]

Ah yes - I think I had skimmed your post without noting the context which EA was used - and assumed it was a abbreviation for a publication. If it were for a publication, the link I mentioned is extremely useful.. Given the specific archaeological context your text actually has, Excavated Area seems to be a good suggestion in this case!

[Salmu]

Hey you lot...to answer the question posed by Katrina...EA is the site code for the loci of excavation, it is an abbreviation of the name El Ahmar.....

[katrinav]

yes! that makes perfect sense!! thank you thank you thank you Andrea!

[af]

Hi all
I'm Af, and I'm a Sumerian enthusiast from Russia, Moscow. I'm interested in this for already half a year . I have noone to talk about it here in Russia, and I'm lucky that I met Kohl and he showed me this forum.
I'm interested in all aspects of the life of Ancient Mesopotamia, and I'm learning Sumerian, and also trying to learn cuneiforms .

[sheshki]

Hi Af, welcome on board. I think you will find interesting stuff here. For learning cuneiform, or for getting an idea how much fun it is check:
enenuru.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=selfdiscombobulationetc&action=display&thread=119

Moscow is a nice city, at least as far as ive seen it. Was there 2006, gostinitza ukraina.
menja sawut frank

[af]

Thank you Sheshki I saw that thread and I saw you cuneiform works - it's great!