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Post by chgowiz on Sept 17, 2009 10:55:45 GMT -5
Hello, my name is Michael (aka Chgowiz - that's short for Chicago-wiz). My love for prehistory goes back to my childhood in the 70s, growing up with those Time/Life and Nat'l Geographic books with the evocative pictures of mysteries revealed. Life took me in a far different direction, but I've always maintained an interest in the Mesopotamian and Sumerian history and culture.
I have the fortune of living near the Oriental Museum of Chicago and try to make the trip when I can.
More to the point, the reason I'm actively discussing and researching Sumerian history is to assist in my writing project. Inspired in spirit by Harry Turtledove's alternative history fiction novel "Between the Rivers", I am writing a game campaign setting based on my own alternative history of Sumeria and the beginning of the bronze age. Ironically, or perhaps happy-happenstance, I'm writing for a style/version of roleplaying games consonant with the 1970s forms of gaming.
My interest is mainly to steep myself in what is known about the culture, mythology, religion and everyday life of Sumeria - although my writing and "game novelization" won't be factual, I want to learn more so that my game stems from fact.
And I get to scratch that childhood "prehistory/cusp of civilization" itch that I've always had, and probably always will have. The sense of wonder when I go to the Oriental Museum and look at the artifacts never gets any less.
I am reading up the rules, so I don't know if I'm allowed yet to share my own blog - perhaps when it's on topic, I can be allowed to share some of my reinterpretations if there's any interest?
Kindest regards and thanks! Michael / Chgowiz
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Post by sheshki on Sept 17, 2009 17:55:30 GMT -5
Hello Michael, welcome on board. Your project sounds very interesting, and in secret i was always hoping that someone, next to CIV. that would make something with mesopotamian background.i hope we can help you somehow.
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Post by chgowiz on Sept 18, 2009 8:20:50 GMT -5
Hello Michael, welcome on board. Your project sounds very interesting, and in secret i was always hoping that someone, next to CIV. that would make something with mesopotamian background.i hope we can help you somehow. Thank you! I hope so, right now, I'm just trying to wrap my head around the basics. I'm just really reading and making a ton of notes. I should note that this is for tabletop gaming, as opposed to video games. I'm one of those 'old guys' who started playing D&D in the late 1970s and never stopped. Is there an appropriate place where I can post questions that won't interfere/clash with projects of an academic nature?
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Post by ummia-inim-gina on Sept 23, 2009 12:53:16 GMT -5
Welcome to the board chgowiz. My brother once ran a D&D game set in the bronze age. I don't spend enough time interacting socially to play in a campaign these days but It sounded like he got a good response from the players. However since no one else in the group shared our enthusiasm for ANE history, the cultural accuracy of the setting was compromised in my opinion. He went high fantasy with it and it kills me that he included elves and dwarves in a near eastern setting. If you decide to stick within the cultural context of Sumer you will find an abundant supply of Monsters and quite a few magic items in Sumerian texts (even an intelligent weapon: how D&D is a magical talking fifty headed mace!?!) You might want to take a look at the tenth chapter of my book that is posted under the "Ummia's authentic fiction" section of the Mesopotamian message board. It features a list of the names of many magic weapons listed in Sumerian literature. Enenuru should be a valuable resource for converting Sumerian incantations into D&D style spells. I'm not sure at what level you are at with your studies so I'm not sure what to suggest to help. If you look over my recommended reading thread you will find several books on daily life in Mesopotamia that I feel could help someone developing a campaign setting. Please make a post on the general board if you have some finished campaign material. I'd like to see it.
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Post by noirahtlen on Dec 3, 2009 0:19:00 GMT -5
Hello. Call me Shrub. Found this place through a community on livejournal and had a mild heart attack because I never thought I'd find a forum with a focus on Mesopotamia. But wow, nice layout you guys have here!
Anyways, I'm currently a first-year in university. Undeclared major as of right now, but I have my sights set (ha, more like "fixed") on the Near Eastern Lang. and Civ. major at my school, with a focus in Cuneiform Studies. I had originally contemplated an Anthropology major with a focus in Archaeology, but then decided I wanted to focus on a region instead of the practice of archaeology (seems a bit too broad for me) and - well, I figured the Near East is as good a place as any to start, especially considering my interest in NE mythology and literature. ("Epic of Gilgamesh", anyone?)
In any case, I'm also a dabbler in Egyptology, but those days ended when I could not quite get my mind wrapped around the circumstantial sdm.f form in Middle Egyptian. Alas. I'll go back to it one day and understand. But on that note, I'll hopefully be up to studying Akkadian, which, if all goes right with my schedule, I'll be taking next year. And, uh, Sumerian and Hittite as well over the course of my entire undergrad career. Because cuneiform as a writing system is wonderfully pretty and, yes, I suppose that's a shallow reason to study languages, but heck - it's currently working quite well with Russian. The lure of pretty non-Latin alphabets motivates me quite a bit. I'm also getting driven nuts with the desire to learn Arabic and Attic Greek, the latter more so than the former, and if I get my way, I'll be leaving university with a NELC major and a Classics minor. My parents are thus convinced I'll be living out of a cardboard box for the rest of my life.
Er, anyways, so I guess I'm pretty much an aspiring Sumerologist. Hopefully, I'll get a chance to do some archaeological excavations in the Mesopotamia region through my university, but I don't think that will happen anytime soon, what with the instability in Iraq/Iran. I might end up in Jordan or Turkey or Israel this summer at an archaeological field school . . . that or I'll be interning at a museum doing . . . intern stuff. While self-studying French and German. Um, yeah.
So that's boring ol' me in a nutshell. Hi, guys!
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Post by us4-he2-gal2 on Dec 3, 2009 22:56:52 GMT -5
Hey Shrub: I'm glad enenuru has caught your eye - I think to the right mind there is alot that stands out about this board.. this is thanks to the efforts of some of our members, and also I think, thanks to the incredible dearth of any other community willing to work in these ways. So I can understand your surprise here, it used to be me looking around for a real Mesopotamian forum. "Anyways, I'm currently a first-year in university, but I have my sights set (ha, more like "fixed") on the Near Eastern Lang." Ah - you're very lucky to have the chance to become an Assyriologist, that is, not only interest but a situation where enrollment in a adequate program may be possible. Language studies are very advisable - and this is where Mesopotamian studies shine, what is really special about them, its that with this culture we can reliably eavesdrop and from a farther distance than any other culture we have so far considered. So sure, Mesopotamian archeology is impressive - but Mesopotamian philologists have a real privledge in my mind. It's definitely the way to go! On that note, I should mention a thread on this board called "so you want to be an Assyriologist?" This thread I addressed to layman who have the interest in Assyriology and tried to explain how the field really is sort of a tough prospect - but it may contain some insight in this way to 1st year students as well. There are 2 posts by current students who are studying Sumerology in Europe (...I twisted their arms to post since they are not exactly frequent posters..). In addition, I summed the academic career of Samuel N. Kramer, a godfather of Sumerian Mythology in translation (I read his autobiography which was quite rigid, and as you'll see his life was hard.) Lastly, on this thread I recorded my own efforts to get guidence from an Assyriologist in Toronto about courses I should invest in in my own university in order to become an Assyriologist - the thread went no where at this point since no answers were forthcoming. So you want to become an Assyriologist? Additionally, if you want to read something about the early Sumerologists, founders of the field and so on, there are two threads entitled "Henry Layard and A Period of Public Interest" and "Jena: Hilprecht/ Delitzsch/Schrader/Pan-Babylonian" on the "Sumerologistics" section which give some nice narrative there. This has no direct use, but may help you get your bearings with the field. I am quite partial to German Assyriology which I think made a greater impact than the French - I've learned introductory German, but have no time to build it further. Certainly German is suggestible for ANE studies, as is French, but I would expect they wouldn't give you the luxury of time needed for self study (if I had to guess.) As for cuneiform, it has a remarkable look to it, and it is something that makes scribes out of people whether you are in the e-dub-ba of old, or new, or in one of your own making. Cuneiform serves not only as a symbol of literacy but it is literacy in its original form, a form that in certain strange conditions remains unforgotten, so to speak. I know some people around here who make some very unique art out of it hm
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Post by noirahtlen on Dec 4, 2009 4:31:07 GMT -5
I am indeed very lucky to be at a university that offers so many courses in the Ancient Near East (and . . . just the Near East in general). It's ridiculous how awesome the department is at my school and we even have a very respectable and sizable collection of NE artifacts in an archaeology museum located right on campus. Hoping to intern there in a couple years or so, but for right now, I'm taking it slow and trying to build up a solid foundation in general museum studies and archaeological fieldwork.
From what I'm aware of, there are more publications written in German than in French. Got the short end of the stick here, as I took French in high school and am mildly proficient in it, but know absolutely no German. That said, some digging around revealed that I pretty much just need reading proficiency in the two languages to get by (since, if I'm looking at grad school, I'll absolutely need those two languages), so I'm going to work on honing those skills. (Though, if anyone's interested, "German Quickly: A Grammar for Reading German" by April Wilson and "French for Reading" by Karl C. Sandberg are the recommended texts for self-studying the two languages on the reading level.)
Cuneiform is remarkably pretty, and I'm just . . . drawn to pretty non-Latin alphabets. (I actually find the Latin alphabet a bit ugly.) So, Attic Greek, Akkadian, Hittite, Ugaritic, Sumerian, Russian, Arabic, Persian, Hebrew, and any language written in a runic alphabet, etc. appeal to me to a ridiculous degree.
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Post by sheshki on Dec 4, 2009 5:42:33 GMT -5
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adapa
dubsartur (junior scribe)
Posts: 22
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Post by adapa on Feb 9, 2010 23:28:47 GMT -5
Hi, let me introduce myself, my name is Brian, and on this board I will be known as Adapa. I'm presently the High-priest of Enki and the Beloved of Inana in the Ancient & Reformed Church, a rather eclectic religious organization firmly based in Sumerian and spiritual vodou. Although I have spent many years studying and practicing many different occult traditions, originally I came out of an academic milieu. I studied for many years with many of the best sumerologists in the field, but I was not destined to be a scholar, which was my original intent. I fell under the influence of Inana and Enki and my life changed. I look forward to sharing what I know with you all, and learning everything I can from you. Good day to you all, Brian
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Post by us4-he2-gal2 on Feb 11, 2010 0:08:56 GMT -5
Adapa: Nice to meet you - that's a very interesting background! Persons with a strong interest in either the Academic or Religous approach to Mesopotamian culture are rare enough.. but any move to incorporate both is surely rarer still. I think there have been a few examples of people who have done that well, perhaps not many - the Adapa who used to run the "Twin Rivers Rising" web resource (now lost) may have been one - and a member who used to come here by the name of Bel Murru built the Babylonian Magic website by combining his interest in comtempary occult with often careful use of ANE scholarship. I suppose it's not personal religious success that I know them for, but that they provided inroads for alot of laymen trying to get a hand up on academic materials. Then there are some scholars such as Kramer whose sympathy for his beloved subject matter seems to have produced feelings bordering on the religious. I hope you find some useful things in our readings here, religious sentiment in the Sumerians is a concept I think all readers should search for, if not hold, in order to understand those times. If you haven't seen it yet, I would suggest the Sisig/Zaqiqu/Lil2 thread which deals with concepts of incorpreality - questions remaining unanswered at moment of course: enenuru.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=research&action=display&thread=40&page=1
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Post by madness on Feb 11, 2010 19:22:14 GMT -5
Hi Brian, welcome to the board..
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Post by sheshki on Feb 12, 2010 5:44:50 GMT -5
Hi Brian/Adapa, welcome on board. And thanks for your words in the "Cuneiform Diary". On one tablet i tried to copy i had the strong feeling that it was made by a student back then. Its this one: That reminds me, there is watered clay in the kitchen which managed to slip off my memorie. I hope its not dried out. *edit* Clay is in perfect condition. Will inscribe tonight...but what text?
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asakku
dubĝal (scribes assistent)
Posts: 51
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Post by asakku on Mar 28, 2010 8:07:17 GMT -5
Hello guys, I would introduce myself.. I'am dom from austria, and study assyrology and oriental studys on university. May some of you know me already...i'am the guy with the tiamat tattoo that sheshki once posted here in the forum. Youre site is really nice, so finally i register myself.
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Post by sheshki on Mar 28, 2010 12:42:46 GMT -5
hey asakku, welcome on board. you will see, we are a like a lil family here
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Post by us4-he2-gal2 on Mar 29, 2010 1:04:54 GMT -5
Greetz Domi - Willkommen! Yes, Sheshki had mentioned that not long ago, the tattoo - I think quite a nice one,and ...if I am not mistaken ... a visual promise to dig into the obscurities [Dunkelheit] of Mesopotamian myth and magic? Thats what it looks like to me Enenuru is where the obscure are at home - the only question is where to start? ;]
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Post by xuchilpaba on Apr 9, 2010 21:36:20 GMT -5
hey asakku! Feel free to contribute. I love reading the contributions here.
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Post by lorddagon on May 29, 2010 12:39:22 GMT -5
Hello everybody ! Allow me to introduce myself ! My real name is Mihai, I live in Eastern Europe, Romania.
I am new to this board, and I'm glad I found this site. I come here seeking a more in-depth knowledge of Ancient Sumer. Until now I have only studied general overviews on the subject- works such as those of Samuel Noah Krammer. I am interested especially in: - the complete history of the sumerian civilization as is available to this date - the sumerian way of thinking- worldviews, philosophies,religion etc (of these I already have a brief knowledge of) - sumerian magic, rites and misteries. I am fascinated by this ancient civilization, as I am of everything relating to Mesopotamia (ancient).
Among other things, I am also a student of the occult, making this another reason for my studies...
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Post by us4-he2-gal2 on May 29, 2010 14:44:28 GMT -5
Hello Mihai - Welcome to the board Yes Kramer is an excellent scholar to start with in my opinion because of his very solid ambition and enthusiasm, and his ability to transfer those things to his readers as well. Your interests as far as comprehending further the Sumerian world view, system of magical thinking and outlook in general are very commendable! I would say that these finer understandings must come from a study of the entire field of Sumerology, and all the many accumulated insights - even then, it is a little like peeking through a keyhole.. I will certainly endeavor to assist in any case
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Post by lorddagon on May 30, 2010 4:07:42 GMT -5
Thank you, us4-he2-gal2. I do need a little planning and structuring of the studies. I feel that taking each particular period and analyzing it from all those points of view is better than studying the history, philosophy and magic separately for the whole Sumer period. My greatest shortcoming is the low access to most of the better works on Sumerology. Where I live I can only get hold of few books on this subject, that is why I come here, to seek some "professional" guidance
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Post by enkur on Sept 18, 2010 6:03:15 GMT -5
Hello,
Let me introduce myself under the name of Enkur. I'm a theatrical director by education who is interested in theatrically investigating the drama in the Sumerian myths, since certain Anuna gods have strongly appealed to me as dramatic personae. Though I do need an academic information for that purpose, it doesn't mean I intend to directly reconstruct Sumerian religious rituals on the stage, because I would like these myths to make sense for the contemporary spectator via the means of artistic representations. It's a dream yet since there is no particular audience for such kind of mythic theatre where I am, but for now I'm interested in the very process of investigation rather than in the final result.
Of course, such a process implies magic because adopting the role of dingir means mastering the technique of invocation, so I hope that the gods would show an appropriate way their essence to be expressed nowadays via the means of theatre provided a genuine contact is made with them on an archetypal level.
I'm here to learn rather than to teach, though I have professional observations of the way the actors invest their energy in their roles and performances as well as certain objective observations of the way the modern occultists do it in their rituals, so I could be of some practical use for those interested in the process.
For me it's a very delicate matter and I doubt if the direct reconstruction approach would be of great help to me, since magic itself implies an extremely subjective approach based on the personal experience of the objective facts, rather than on observing strictly some ancient religious ceremony which appeals little to the subjective feeling. As far as I know the Sumerian civilization combined well magic with religion, the personal deity's cult with the state's cult to the patron-dingir.
Best regards
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Post by us4-he2-gal2 on Sept 20, 2010 19:21:46 GMT -5
Welcome Enkur - I'm very pleased to see you've joined You're somewhat unique vantage point on a little known subject is a welcome addition here at enenuru - we are more often than not an eccentric group as you will probably see. Will do my best to dig up something suitable for your interests, you did send me a few key myths so, will try and start there. I'm at the library tonight in search of Early Dynastic (or Pre-Sargonic) literature, which has been very hard to find until I've moved to Toronto. for more on this very interesting stuff see: enenuru.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=research&action=display&thread=39 Best Regards!
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Post by enkur on Sept 24, 2010 10:29:43 GMT -5
Thanks us4-he2-gal2. It's a honor to me being here in a forum so diligently devoted to its theme. Unfortunately I still feel unqualified to deal with the information given in this DCSL subcatalogue since I failed to find anything by using the CDLI search for the ETCSL transliterated texts I was interested in. Moreover you say "they all seem considerably inaccessible". Why? What does mean UD.GAL.NUN designation? Well I'm going to read further below the link...
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Post by us4-he2-gal2 on Sept 26, 2010 11:08:33 GMT -5
Interesting material George - the Bahrani that is.. she is a close student or follower of J. Bottero who was a brilliant French Assyriologist although one whose idea's aren't always accepted (or acceptable). He tended to lump cultures, Semites and Sumerians together for example. As for the notion that all Mesopotamian rituals have four components.. it seems there could certainly be exceptions. But that may hold true for this particular substitution ritual, and the description of this ritual is highly fascinating - Bahrani is definitely an interesting read because she is challenging ideas that have been held about Mesopotamian art images since colonial times.
There is further description of a ritual for a Substitute King in "Mesopotamian Protective Spirits" by F.A.M. Wiggermann. Keep in mind that the relevant entry in this book is in a extremely technical language and requires you to find and review probably at least a dozen rare articles in order to make use of it.
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Post by enkur on Sept 27, 2010 16:12:30 GMT -5
Thanks George. This substitute king ritual sounds familiar to me. In my native land of ancient Thrace they had some similar rituals, a matter I haven't studied so closely yet. The Thracians had no writing so everything said on the matter is speculations - both ancient and modern. Yes, the little I've read by Stephen Flowers/Edred Thorson resonates much with my experience in certain spheres but I haven't heard about that Polarian Method.
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Post by enkur on Oct 4, 2010 6:15:55 GMT -5
For me the Left-handed path is following the subtle thread to one's subjective truth one has caught up during one's initiatory experience. Incomprehensible are the ways the sorcerer's quest may take on. There are inevitably moments of crisis when this thread of destiny is lost, and then found again. It could be disastrous indeed. I prefer not to poster much my ways - except in the case of certain art presentations. "Satan" you speak about is in fact the scimitar I use to cut off any other spirirtuality which doesn't fit my quest. The adept sorcerer rarely uses this scimitar but there is inevitably a certain ordeal/experience on the path of sorcery which is a criterion that one's subjective truth has got some objectivity - it's when the sorcerer confronts the possibility to become a cult figure or a priest. That's the paradox where the Left and the Right-handed paths met together. It's up to the sorcerer how will further proceed but for those followed the Right-handed path up to this point it could prove a disaster since they will confront their own subjectivity they've always neglected and it could become the devil itself. The greatest human ordeal has always been the power and authority, not the hardship and poverty. How many cult priests in the antiquity who have managed to become deified kings have dealt well therewith? Presently the thread I've followed since many years has led me to the Sumerian source, where all this human civilization sprang up.
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Post by brandonsp on Jan 23, 2011 22:37:47 GMT -5
Hello,
I'm Brandon Pilcher from the ConceptArt.org forums. I found this place through a fellow artist's signature. Although my main interest is in Egypt, I do think the Sumerians and other Mesopotamian civilizations are also worth learning about and even have a copy of Samuel Kramer's The Sumerians. I look forward to posting here!
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Post by nininimzue on Jan 27, 2011 11:42:24 GMT -5
Morning. I was already here once, but alas, I vanished, things changed, then things changed again, and now I'm back! Weeee! <--- ANE student, thesis for MA is about {d}lamma in the Sumerian texts (possibly under consideration of old Babylonian material). I heart Sumer a lot, am obsessive, and am generally specialising in Sumerian critters, mythology, rites of passage, and the neolithic revolution. My PIP (Post-Interesting-Period) is 1750 (BCE of course!). Deities: Enki, Nergal (although of course I acknowledge the whole Sumerian pantheon). Occult-y, mixing my academic stuff with magick etc. Sheesh, seems we're all here because of Bill. Nice to be here again.
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Post by sheshki on Jan 28, 2011 9:00:46 GMT -5
I greet and welcome all the new board members. May the Clay be with you!
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Post by us4-he2-gal2 on Jan 28, 2011 14:43:43 GMT -5
nininimzue: well, am always pleased by your enthusiasm of course. Responding simultaneously to your reintroduction and your proposition on the sisig thread, I'm always interested in the ways that spirit may take on substance hm In any case welcome.
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adapa
dubsartur (junior scribe)
Posts: 22
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Post by adapa on Feb 24, 2011 0:02:46 GMT -5
I have been on this board before, but I have been gone for nearly a year. Now things are more favorable for me, I have computer, internet, etc. so I'm back and I thought I should re-introduce myself. My Sumerian stage name is Adapa, but you can call me Brian. I have an extensive ANE academic background (Sumerian, Akkadian, Hebrew, Aramaic and a little bit of Hurrian, learned at the University of Arizona and the University of Michigan) , but for the last 15 years I have been spiritually involved with Inana, Enki and the more modern vudu traditions. The latest incarnation of the Church I'm affiliated with, the Ancient & Reformed Church (a "vudu" church with strong Sumerian overtones.) is now online, check it out if you feel like it at www.midnight-ministries.org/arc. I'm also a hudu root doctor and an ordained minister who loves to do weddings! That's me in a nutshell, I look forward to getting to know you'all!
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