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Post by sheshki on Sept 12, 2008 6:29:59 GMT -5
hello marcus, welcome on board. well, how about trying this cuneiform memorie game. the actual board highscore is 26.  |
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Post by ummia-inim-gina on Sept 12, 2008 20:51:47 GMT -5
Hi, just a quick intro. My 'real' name is Marcus. I love the arts & ancient history, just about anything BCE. Sumerian is fascinating! This site is interesting, not the usual stuffy intellectual graveyard. I had an idea for learning some basic Sumerian similar to kindergarten or elementary school. Picture dictionary, flash cards, etc. Has anyone approached it this way? Welcome Enki. I'm not sure if I would refer to it as an elementary school approach, however an author by the name of Daniel Snell put together a workbook to help students learn signs. You can find a used copy on amazon for as cheap as 20$ Workbook of Cuneiform Signs (Aids and research tools in ancient Near Eastern studies) by Daniel C. Snell (Author) I personally have found it nearly impossible to teach myself Sumerian grammar without constant consultation from others but you might have better luck then me (I am monolingual so learning linguistic concepts can be difficult for me.) Here is a list works I got off a guy on facebook. Ok, here is relatively up-to-date bibliography to sumerian grammar: * A. Poebel - Grundzüge der sumerischen Grammatik, Rostock 1923 * A. Falkenstein - Grammatik der Sprache Gudea von Lagas, AnOr. 28-29 (Rome 1949-1950) * A. Falkenstein - Das Sumerische, HdOr I/2, Leiden 1959 * M.-L. Thompsen - The Sumerian Language, Mesopotamia 10, Copenhagen 1984 (important!) * P. Attinger - Eléments de linguistique sumérienne. OBO Sonderb., Fribourg 1993 (very important!!!) * D.O.Edzadr - Sumerian Grammar, HdOr I/71, Brill 2003 * P.Michalowski - Sumerian, in The Camebridge Encyclopedia of the World's Ancient Languages * G. Zolyomi - Sumerisch, in M.P.Streck (ed.) - Altorientalische Sprachen |
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Post by sheshki on Sept 13, 2008 6:49:23 GMT -5
Welcome Enki. I'm not sure if I would refer to it as an elementary school approach, however an author by the name of Daniel Snell put together a workbook to help students learn signs. You can find a used copy on amazon for as cheap as 20$ Workbook of Cuneiform Signs (Aids and research tools in ancient Near Eastern studies) by Daniel C. Snell (Author) For the workbook go here |
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pizzewis
dubsartur (junior scribe)
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Post by pizzewis on Sept 14, 2008 8:19:54 GMT -5
I had an idea for learning some basic Sumerian similar to kindergarten or elementary school. Picture dictionary, flash cards, etc. Has anyone approached it this way? Think this might work fine for the signs, but the grammar... I can't even find 2 sumerologists who agree... So how could one make a basic Sumerian work? Well, I'm interested to hear about it of course |
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Post by us4-he2-gal2 on Sept 14, 2008 21:53:33 GMT -5
Good responses all! That's some decent introduction thread action going on there and I like it:
Although, it does seem like we have a little bit of a "Telephone-game" dynamic happening so let me try and add a few touches.
- When Marcus says "idea for learning some basic Sumerian similar to kindergarten or elementary school" I don't believe he is suggesting that they have, or should start to learn, anything about Sumerian in kindergarten. Instead, I believe he is asking 'can it be learned with basic techniques such as flashcards or other such techniques used in kindergarten classed [to learn English].' In answer, using flashcards is just a technique for memorization and I don't see any reason why it wouldn't assist in this way with Sumerian words - but you will need a grammar as well to tell you how to use those memorized words.
- Learning Sumerian is definitely a very singular undertaking hm. Having a general familiarity with linguistics wouldn't hurt, maybe more specifically studies of dead languages since you wont have any need (or possibly chance) of speaking Sumerian. On a separate thread I can post some of the introductory comments from E. O. Edzard's Sumerian Grammar which may further this topic. Email or PM me should this interest you.
- My good friend Frank has brought up cuneiform learning as is his specialty - this may be something to consider admist thoughts of the language. Ummia has posted some great book suggestions. Pizzewis adds the ever present though quite astute cautionary note.
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Post by amarsin on Sept 16, 2008 21:37:32 GMT -5
I had an idea for learning some basic Sumerian similar to kindergarten or elementary school. Picture dictionary, flash cards, etc. Has anyone approached it this way? Think this might work fine for the signs, but the grammar... I can't even find 2 sumerologists who agree... So how could one make a basic Sumerian work? Well, I'm interested to hear about it of course Well, you'll find plenty of Sumerologists who agree on some basic things. And plenty of others who are sort of agnostic on the really technical stuff. In reality, I'd say that there are maybe 15-20 people who are actively trying to discern Sumerian grammar. The rest of us who deal with Sumerian are just passively taking it all in (though we all probably have minor pet projects with the hope of resolving some grammatical question). But by and large, it's possible to slog through one of the main grammars and come away being pretty grounded in Sumerian-- at least as far as it's presently understood. |
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Post by sobk111 on Oct 1, 2008 15:00:07 GMT -5
Greetings
Congratulations on creating an immensely useful resource. I particularly value the original research linking cdli to ED/UrIII incantations with bibliography.
Kind Regards
Sobk
++<
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Post by ummia-inim-gina on Oct 1, 2008 15:44:57 GMT -5
Welcome Sobk!
silim-ma he2-me-en
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Post by us4-he2-gal2 on Oct 3, 2008 3:15:03 GMT -5
Sobk111:
Welcome to the board - thanks for perusing our introductions thread, only polite members take this step I find. Great to hear you are finding some utility in all of this obsession and obscurity - I knew someone would need it eventually! 0_0
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Post by darkstriim on Oct 3, 2008 12:01:50 GMT -5
Hello all,
I am new to the board. I am encouraged to see a forum on Sumerology. My backround is mostly in solitary Magick, including a mixture of wiccan, Runic, and Ceremonial. Mostly however i follow the Runic path and have spent several years studying its esoterics, and science. I feel particularly close to the darker aspects of the craft as i see all colors instead of just one. I have to say i am pleased to see such in depth research on this board into our distant past.
I have done some research into the Necronomicon, and am currently researching for curiosity sake the argument of its purported non-existance. I am seeing encouraging signs that the argument against it's existence is more assumption than fact. There is more to Lovecraft than meets the eye.
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Post by ummia-inim-gina on Oct 3, 2008 12:54:03 GMT -5
I have done some research into the Necronomicon, and am currently researching for curiosity sake the argument of its purported non-existance. I am seeing encouraging signs that the argument against it's existence is more assumption than fact. There is more to Lovecraft than meets the eye. What might these encouraging signs be? |
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Post by us4-he2-gal2 on Oct 4, 2008 17:38:15 GMT -5
Darkstriim: Welcome- I am glad to see your taking an interest in Sumerian subjects. I am not sure that you will find research here that might further the Necronomicon in anyway I`m afraid but, I you are looking for solid information that may put the book withing some rational context with do have some of that here, I think. First we do treat the book in relation Maqlu texts which it indirectly borrows from here: enenuru.net/html/maqluexpl.htm Also we have a thread on the board itself which deals with the subject, and I have just now put more information up for you. The thread as youll see is somewhat pessimistic about the Necronomicon, and the information I have just now added relates to my own investigation of a claim of a 14th Latin manuscript called the Ars Necronomica (I had read up on this earlier this summer for an occult message board.) Anyway perhaps my finding could be useful to you. enenuru.proboards52.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=topics&thread=54&page=1cheers |
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Post by tom on Oct 21, 2008 0:03:16 GMT -5
(Supposed to sign here? I'm game...)
Hi, I'm Tom. I had this board recommended to me by Xuchilpaba after she caught me tampering with Mesopotamian art themes and I complained about not being too familiar with the subject. I made an effort to learn about Mesopotamia after coming across the Burney Relief in the British Museum last year, and I'm hoping a community like this can give me a headstart with learning more methodically than I've done in the past - the myths make for fascinating reading but I'm not always sure where to go next, or indeed where to go first...
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Post by xuchilpaba on Oct 21, 2008 17:51:56 GMT -5
Hey nice to see you here!
I'm sure some of the members would love to supply you with book recommendations, as well as links & videos and the like.
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Post by tom on Oct 21, 2008 19:16:52 GMT -5
We all start somewhere, huh?
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Post by us4-he2-gal2 on Oct 22, 2008 17:37:21 GMT -5
Welcome Tom  Yes that's for sure. I personally found that Ancient Near East studies were a very difficult subject to approach. The rare person to try will most often have the experience that fellow layman are hard pressed to suggest adequate inroads and as for experts, it is unusual for them to directly influence this sort of struggle - some are flatly unmotivated to do so. I hope you find resource and utility at enenuru, if you don't at first get it, give it another chance - I don't think theres another forum like it out there. I will shortly start a new thread, titled something like "Inroads" which I will send a PM around for as well. Than there will be some things to start with.. cheers! |
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Post by oipteaapdoce on Nov 19, 2008 12:04:01 GMT -5
I found the link to this forum after reading a post about Mesopotamian magic on a... well a forum I was surprised to find anything scholarly on LOL... so I had to head on over . I have tried to look into the Babylonian and Sumerian stuff for awhile but it is so confusing usually. I either seem to find information that is Necromonicon based, or where it's all cuneiform without translations, but not much in between. On a side note, how did everyone miss that the MS in question wasn't even in Dee's handwriting on in his list of books in his library? And how is that book even about Necromancy (working with the dead) in the first place? Anyways, I practice magic mostly Demonology and Egyptian. At least with the Mesopotamian stuff Llewellynn et all hasn't put out a series of watered down Pseudo books with more of a Wicca edge then anything historically accurate! You should see the crap out there about "Egyptian magic"! A lot of it makes the Necronomicon look like a good find. Oh wait, this is an introduction, not a rant... Anyways, some of the Daemons I work with have roots in Babylonian and Sumerian mythos, so I have had to look further. That and I always love to read up on ancient magical techniques and spells. Any good book recommendations in this regard? Athena |
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Post by sheshki on Nov 19, 2008 16:43:23 GMT -5
hello athena, welcome on board. i think your on the right place here. how about checking our brandnew bibliography of mesopotamian magic at www.enenuru.net /cuneiform magic/bibliography greetings sheshki |
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Post by xuchilpaba on Nov 19, 2008 17:19:17 GMT -5
Hi Athena. You wouldn't happen to be from paganspace would you?
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Post by ummia-inim-gina on Nov 19, 2008 18:00:40 GMT -5
Welcome to the board Athena.
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Post by oipteaapdoce on Nov 19, 2008 22:20:32 GMT -5
hello athena, welcome on board. i think your on the right place here. how about checking our brandnew bibliography of mesopotamian magic at www.enenuru.net /cuneiform magic/bibliography greetings sheshki Thank you for the welcome . I am loving the archives. I'm used to boards etc. discussing the ancient near east (or whatever the term is) not wanting to answer any of my questions, due to my practice of magic I think, so this is quite refreshing. I had been keeping my Eisenbrams catalogues hidden away to save on the budget LOL. It seems I have a dozen more books to order now as I don't think I have any of those. Any of them you would recommend I get first? I'm hoping that the local University library will have at least a few... but most look like books I would want to re-read and have for referance anyways. Athena |
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Post by oipteaapdoce on Nov 19, 2008 22:22:25 GMT -5
Hi Athena. You wouldn't happen to be from paganspace would you? Nope never heard of it, even worse, from occultforums lol. Athena |
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Post by oipteaapdoce on Nov 19, 2008 22:23:50 GMT -5
Welcome to the board Athena. Thank you . Glad I got here early, I already have a few weeks of reading ahead of me here it seems. Athena |
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Post by us4-he2-gal2 on Nov 19, 2008 22:50:34 GMT -5
Athena:
The determination to try a local university library is probably the most fruitful one and Ancient Near East researcher can make.. However if it is on the subject of Mesopotamian Magic, it depends on which university your going to - if it is a university with an A.N.E. department then you will find them there (see our departments list at enenuru.net). However, if it is a university without an A.N.E department, then your best bet is their humanities library wear there may be a good number of Assyriological and Sumerological works, but books touching on Magic are unlikely.
Of the books listed at our bibliography, I suggest first Cunningham 1997 - however, it is perhaps most rare and difficult to obtain of them all Im afaid. It is an overall view of Sumerian incantations 2500 to 1500 B.C. Next I would recommend Geller 1985, it contains the best translations of a series of Old Babylonian incantations (1800 BC) , the series is called Udug-hul. They are exorcistic incantations to banish demons.
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Post by oipteaapdoce on Nov 20, 2008 2:24:48 GMT -5
Athena: The determination to try a local university library is probably the most fruitful one and Ancient Near East researcher can make.. However if it is on the subject of Mesopotamian Magic, it depends on which university your going to - if it is a university with an A.N.E. department then you will find them there (see our departments list at enenuru.net). However, if it is a university without an A.N.E department, then your best bet is their humanities library wear there may be a good number of Assyriological and Sumerological works, but books touching on Magic are unlikely. Of the books listed at our bibliography, I suggest first Cunningham 1997 - however, it is perhaps most rare and difficult to obtain of them all Im afaid. It is an overall view of Sumerian incantations 2500 to 1500 B.C. Next I would recommend Geller 1985, it contains the best translations of a series of Old Babylonian incantations (1800 BC) , the series is called Udug-hul. They are exorcistic incantations to banish demons. I see your list for the UK, US and Germany.... Well as long as I don't see any Canadian U's listed under the US I'll be happy lol. I have found quite a few books on magic in many of the universities in BC, I haven't done a mesopotamian etc. search yet, but I have found many good works on magic so far. I think the University of Victoria has the best selection for the west coast, but it is a bit of a travel for me. UBC also has a nice selection but along a different vein. At least I can search the catalogues from home. The only catch is that not being a student I can't do inter library loan from other Universities <darn> and the public libraries never seem to be able to get the good stuff! Thank you for the book recommendations . I would like to focus first on the purely magical aspect, then broaden my knowledge on the more purely religious aspect. I did find a deliver me from evil teaser via google books (gotta love them) [url=[http://books.google.com/books?id=QkI5ZuZ5-hoC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Deliver+Me+from+Evil:+Mesopotamian+Incantations#PPP1,M1] here [/url] which is well, 3/4 of the book :>. Besides that I would have to add another $80 to the bookfund, as I did see one copy online. I have to say I'm loving the Maqlu Tablets over on the website, and am getting quite a few good ideas <eg>. I keep noticing many similarities in magic from other areas as well. Any books you would recommend about incense or herbs used in magic? (loved the incense thread), or divination that isn't astrology (I'll get to that later)? Athena |
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Post by us4-he2-gal2 on Nov 20, 2008 5:13:19 GMT -5
Athena:
As a fellow Canadian with interests in these particular studies, let me express my sympathies for the frustrations which undoubtedly await you at our good educational instituations hm.. Have pmed you.
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Post by oipteaapdoce on Nov 20, 2008 9:17:54 GMT -5
Nah, that's just on the East coast... er last time I checked. I'll find a way in... Now the Chicago U, or the British Library? Damn impossible!
Athena
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Post by rose on Nov 20, 2008 14:56:05 GMT -5
Aloha! This Rose from Germany, greetings to everyone! I'm actually studing Egyptology at the University of Leipzig, but the "Altorientalistik" (=Assyriology) is my second field of studies; That means, I can read not only Hieroglyphics (at least I try^^), but also Accadian and Assyrian; Unfortunatley I do hardly know any Sumerian, for it's not teached right now at our institut. Anyway, I'm trying to increase my basic knowledges about the mesopotamien cultures, and since my dear StudiVz-friend - may I also call you "Kohl"? *poke*^^ - introduced me to this really great site, I guess that would be really useful for me, and I hope I will be able to give some useful information to everybody, as well Of course I will try to participate as well as possible here, but I'm quite busy, so please nobody mind me not beeing constantly active ;-) Yours, Rose P.S.: please excuse my english, I know, it could be better ^^ |
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Post by sheshki on Nov 20, 2008 16:34:57 GMT -5
hallo rose,
willkommen an bord und grüße aus plagwitz.
sheshki
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Post by us4-he2-gal2 on Nov 21, 2008 11:30:51 GMT -5
Hey it's Rose!! *beams* Wilkommen, Wilkommen  I didn't know you were learning Assyran to! (How did we not get to that yet?) And none to worry - of course we can immerse you in a not-to-time-costly enenuru study of some sort. Must find something just stylish enough for you hmmm P.S. Dein English ist feinstein! |
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I didn't know you were learning Assyran to! (How did we not get to that yet?) And none to worry - of course we can immerse you in a not-to-time-costly enenuru study of some sort. Must find something just stylish enough for you hmmm